Kelvin Crosby Host

00:06

Welcome to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast. We're not waiting for change, we're investing in it. Join us as we speak with entrepreneurs and thought leaders that are focused on creating a more accessible world. 

00:28

Hey, hey,hey, so good to see you, even though I can't see you. It's another beautiful day in the neighborhood and I'm so excited that you are here at Investing in Accessibility, and we got a show today that really is going to open your eyes in a way that I don't think the world's ready for. It's going to blow your mind a little bit. But before we get into that, let me introduce you to my co-host, Chris Maher. How you doing, man?

Chris Maher Co-host

00:59

Hey Kelvin, how are you buddy Good to see you today. 

Kelvin Crosby Host

01:01

I'm doing good. I'm really excited about today's topic and our guests, he's coming out with a book that's come out that really is setting a visual understanding, a reality check, to accessibility as an investment opportunity and the growth opportunity behind it. And thinking about universal access for all, and I think this is going to be exciting. So why don't you tell us a little bit about our guest and introduce him you? 

Chris Maher Co-host

01:35

You got it. I agree with you. I'm super excited for this conversation. So our guest today is Bob Ludke, who is co-founder of a firm called Value Inclusion. But I think of Bob as a bit of a renaissance man or, as they say, a jack of all trades, but he's actually a master of many. So he has a very long career around disability and sustainability and ESG and public policy, and so it's such a treat to have Bob here today, and part of what we're going to talk about is his new book, which is about disability-driven innovation, which is super exciting. So, Bob, welcome to the show. 

Bob Ludke Guest

02:11

Well, thank you. I'm not sure I can ever top an introduction like that. Maybe we should just end the podcast now while I'm ahead. 

Chris Maher Co-host

02:21

Well, it's great to have you here and I feel very fortunate that you and I were introduced, actually a couple of times. We had a very quick kind of passing at that Walmart ADA 34th year anniversary celebration last summer, but then we were properly introduced through our mutual friend, Kara Elizabeth Yar Kahn, which we know is such a special person. But I'm so grateful that she connected us and you and I have become fast friends and really looking forward to talking about your new book today. So, let's jump right into it and would love for you to first share a little bit about your own personal journey and that career around disability and sustainability and ESG and public policy. And let's start there to begin with. 

Bob Ludke Guest

03:13

Great. My first real job, I guess you could say, was summer internship with then Senator Tom Harkin from my home state of Iowa, where I had the good fortune I did something I did not apply for, but the good fortune to spend the summer interning on what was then the Subcommittee for Disability Policy and that was a subcommittee in the US Senate that Senator Harkin chaired and that was really the team of people that did a lot to write the Americans with Disabilities Act. And so I was an intern there a few years after the ADA was signed into law and really watching how the ADA was being implemented. But, all that being said, it was a wonderful, just first experience into government because you really saw what I think government's role should be, and that's problem solving for people and systemic challenges. 

Fast forward a few years later, had an opportunity to then work full time for Senator Harkin, worked in the US House and Senate for a number of years. After that Fast forward a few more years, I then founded my own consultancy around sustainability, corporate responsibility, as Chris alluded to, and you know a framework called environmental, social and governance investing, but really how companies can use their business models to, you know, both create goods and services that are in demand, meet consumer expectations with quality products, meet investor expectations from running profitable, successful, long-term companies, but also doing so in a way that's responsible. And within that context, I realized that too often employing with persons with disabilities was overlooked and it was not even considered, in fact, as a potential driver of innovation and market opportunity. That is what led me back to the Harkin Institute. Which is what Senator Harkin founded at Drake University in Des Moines after he retired from the Senate, where I then developed some research papers, created some convenings around the value proposition of disability employment for companies and treating it as a value creator rather than a compliance mandate or charity or philanthropy or something like that.

Chris Maher Co-host

05:47

Gotcha and thank you for that. And so it feels like all of those different, varied experiences have really culminated with this new venture that you've co-founded called Value Inclusion. Can you give us just kind of a quick snapshot of that before we get into your book? 

Bob Ludke Guest

06:03

Sure. So Value Inclusion is a consultancy that my colleague, Ashley Lance, and I co -founded. And what we are really aiming to do with Value Inclusion is bringing together actionable C-suite strategy, evidence-based research, to corporate executives, to managers in organizations, to show not only, again, the value proposition of disability employment, but how it's actually done. So, rather than just talking about the value proposition in very esoteric terms, we've developed frameworks to help companies, to help organizations across the economy, both here in the US and abroad, to really think through how they attract, how they hire, how they retain and, I think most important, how they grow the careers of persons with disabilities throughout the organization. I mean, we are pretty tired of seeing disability employment treated, as you know, kind of low end, non-career trajectory jobs. And treated as jobs, not as careers. And if an organization really wants to maximize the talent of its employees, it really needs to think about how to maximize all the talents of employees, invest in all employees, regardless of disability, and allow them to have a really long and successful career where they bring their best selves to work every day. 

Kelvin Crosby Host

07:43

As you're talking about this. This reminds me of a story when I was a job developer for the state of California. In my first six months of working in this position, my goal was to put in 12 visually impaired people in the jobs. And I was successful, but six months later, all 12 of those people that got jobs came back. Part of it is my clients weren't very well suited in the position, but also the employer didn't necessarily want to really provide the accommodations. And I think this is something that is I want to bring awareness to, and I think, as Bob is starting to talk about the need to create opportunity for visually, not visually impaired people, for people with disabilities, to have access to grow in the company. And so, Bob, am I correct on my evaluation here? Like this is something that is a major issue. 

Bob Ludke Guest

08:39

It is. Kelvin, your story is a very common story where you have all parties coming into, should we just say, an employee-employer relationship with the best of intentions. And yet it's not sustainable because all parties involved don't have the proper training, they don't have the resources in place, as you said. I mean, at times it's the employees who are not fully equipped to work in a professional environment or a new professional environment, and it's the organizations that aren't very thoughtful, in particular around the accommodations requests and thinking about how to best integrate persons with disabilities into the team in a holistic manner. That, again, is built with a mindset of long-term value creation, both for the person but also for the organization. 

And this has been a bit of a journey for me, right, acting as a consultant to companies on these topics. And it's a lot of work. I mean, this is not easy. You don't just hire anyone, for that matter, and just expect them to perform from day one. Everyone requires mentoring, everyone requires being in a position, both physically and mentally, that allows them to be successful, and you can't just assume that you're going to have successful outcomes as soon as the hiring process stops and the working, the career, the job starts on day one. It just doesn't work that way for anyone. 

Chris Maher Co-host

10:30

Yep Agreed. So, let's jump into your new book, the title of which is “Case Studies in Disability-Driven Innovation: A Better Future Through an Inclusive Economy.” So tell us what's the snapshot of what the book's about and the inspiration behind writing this book. 

Bob Ludke Guest

10:50

Sure. So, the thesis for the book is that disability-driven innovation isn't unique and it's something that we all encounter every day. But more importantly, I think it's a blueprint for the future. And too often, when we talk about disability innovation, disability employment, disability entrepreneurship, we talk about the why. You know, why do we need to hire someone? Why does someone feel compelled to work as a solo entrepreneur rather than trying to seek full-time employment? What I'm trying to get at in the book is the how. How do you maximize everyone's talents to seize market opportunities worth trillions of dollars. To reach a consumer base that is larger than the population of China? So, if you're a corporate executive, if you're a startup, if you're an investor, you should be chasing that market. But more importantly, and I'd say a more important market opportunity, is that if you design your products, Kelvin to your point in the introduction, with kind of universal principles in mind, everyone uses them. And that means that they're available to everyone, and that means you are truly, truly accessing a global market. Right, the population is able to procure your goods and use them. And so, those are just simple things like curb cuts and sidewalks. Right, we all use curb cuts and sidewalks. 

You may have a disability, you may be using some kind of mobility-assisted device, but you also may just be pulling a rollerbag suitcase or, you know, pushing a kid in a stroller or just walking across the street. And so I mean that's universal design at its core. It's something that everyone can use. It frankly makes all of our lives easier. And so, in my mind, the book is really a master class about potential. It's about the potential of people, it's about the potential economic value that can be created through disability-driven innovation, and it's about the potential impact that it has to make our lives richer, more valuable, healthier for all. And frankly, you know let's, I mean, we live in a market-driven economy, right? It's really about market and economic potential for companies, for investors and for entrepreneurs to again seize opportunity in a global market. 

Kelvin Crosby Host

13:33

And I think what's really interesting about this is let's look at some more examples when you get people with disabilities involved in the higher-ups in the companies in the different things. Let's just look at Apple. Apple has a whole accessibility arm. Without an iPhone, you wouldn't have the freedom that we have today as individuals with disabilities. Whether you're visually impaired, you only have eye movement, you have no movement of your hands, you can't speak. There's so many different ways the iPhone is able to accommodate for everybody and this is where why, when we think in terms of this way, we see massive growth in the market, because it's not only providing access for individuals with disabilities, it's providing access to all. And that means your profit margins are going to go up substantially because you're not only tapping into the general market. The disability market is 50 percent of the market, so when you can accommodate for that, you literally have a golden nugget that literally will grow the market in a way that you never can ever see. 

Bob Ludke Guest

14:54

Yeah, and Calvin. One of the examples I use in the book, or cover in the book, is when Disney opened its theme park in Shanghai, China. And obviously you know Disney had to comply with, you know Shanghai and Chinese like versions of the Americans with Disabilities Act, that it had to create a relatively accessible park just to meet the local and national laws. But, more importantly, the mindset of the designers and the Disney Shanghai and the Disney global team, was they wanted that park available and open to all. Because, in their mind, why would you create an inaccessible venue that turned away paying customers? So they knew they didn't make an accessible park, they were preventing people from coming into the park to spend money. And so, in my mind that's not charity, that's not philanthropy, that's just good business sense that ultimately benefits everyone from having that kind of mindset. 

Chris Maher Co-host

16:03

And Bob, in your experience, in your work, do you believe that there's been a shift? My personal opinion is it's going to start with leadership. We need leadership of these large corporations to decide that they're going to be committed to this and that their organization are going to make an investment in it, and then it trickles down to everyone else. And there are some companies like Apple and Microsoft and others Disney that are making commitments to this and you're seeing that it is having an impact on their bottom line. Do you feel that that trend is growing and it's moving away from a compliance checkbox to, hey, this is good for business? Can you speak a little bit to what you're seeing in the marketplace around that? 

Bob Ludke Guest

16:50

Yeah, that's a great question. My view is that we are on the verge of reaching that point, Chris. I don't think we have gone over that point. Where I feel that we're at is that companies want to embrace what you just articulated, Chris. They want to be leaders, but they don't know how. And so, going back to now Value Inclusion,

when Ashley and I are going in and speaking with executives or managers, really the first thing that we hear from organizations is, “Oh boy, this is creating a disability. Inclusive culture is so overwhelming. Like, where do we start? There's ADA compliance, there's, you know, all these mandates. Where do we start? Maybe we should just pull back for another year.” And our response always is you know what? The best thing you can do is show leadership, and the best thing an organization's leadership can do is actually just talk about disability, even if they don't identify as disabled. Just start creating the space in the organization's culture to acknowledge that disability is intersectional, it cuts across all of us, it is something that impacts us and oh, by the way, there's a lot of people in this organization that have a disability. So, let's work on bringing our authentic selves to work and let us know how we can do that better. 

And one reason, Chris, Microsoft is so successful and has made such an organizational commitment to disabilities is because its CEO had a son who was disabled and Satya Nadella saw all kinds of opportunities to not only create a healthier, better culture but by creating really accessible and or universally designed products, again, massive market opportunity. And he uses his position as a CEO to do that. And now Microsoft sees they're driving business value. Apple was created by a guy who identified as dyslexic. Same thing, Apple, I mean Tim Cook has stood up in investor forums and shouted down people who wanted them to cut back on accessibility and inclusion. Because, again, he sees the market opportunity. So, there are leaders, Chris. I don't think we're quite there yet, but I feel like people are like walking up to that edge. They want to cross that, but they don't quite have what they feel is needed to allow them to cross it. 

Kelvin Crosby Host

19:32

Yeah, I mean, I think one thing if you are listening right now, if you haven't listened to Wheel the World, an episode we did two weeks ago, go check it out because, honestly, this is the exactly what we're talking about, it is a perfect company that is including all and giving access for opportunity. So check that out, the last episode we posted. 

Chris Maher Co-host

19:54

And Bob, are there any other examples in the book? So you talked about a large corporation. Are there any other examples? Could be large corporations or maybe smaller companies that are driving significant innovation that can have a profound impact moving forward, or maybe just one of your favorite examples from the book. 

Bob Ludke Guest

20:17

Yeah, I want to maybe talk about one of my favorite examples, because it's both a great story, but I think it also is a pretty clear warning shot in terms of where we are at in the challenges that we face of really really scaling disability-driven innovation. So, there's this guy named Daniel Toops who lives in Northeast Iowa, somewhat near Dubuque, Iowa, kind of the Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois border. And Daniel is autistic and has obsessive compulsive disorder. He's nonverbal. He was for a while in a sheltered workshop that did not work for Daniel. He then worked with his parents to try and find a career, and this career that they landed on is his company called JT Firestarters. And so what Daniel does is he uses recycled egg cartons, shredded paper ,and candle wax to create fire starters that you would put in underneath your campfire logs or in your fireplace to start the fire. 

And so here is a guy who has created this really, really innovative business that fits his abilities that, lo and behold, is a circular company, right? And you have all these companies spending millions, if not billions, of dollars a year to create these circular business models that recycle materials, use less waste, and here's a guy who's created a company that really has no overhead cost, because the entire community donates their old newspapers. Instead of throwing out their egg cartons, they give them to Daniel, and if they have old candles, they drop them off at Daniel's company. And so, he puts these to use with no you know, again, with no real cost. He doesn't have to go out and procure products, right, he's got this perfect supply chain. And he's got some retail outlets that are, you know, selling his products, because you know so many people in that part of the country love to camp and they buy them, go camping with them. But on the other hand, and Daniel to his credit, also employs two other people with disabilities. So he's actually this is not just a one person shop he's hiring other people, he's contributing to the economic vitality in his community. 

But Daniel's really stuck right. He needs some capital that, Chris, does not get to your level of capital. We're not talking venture level funding here. Daniel needs tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade his website, to put a portal on his website. 

There is some concern that the lease on his shop may run out that he has currently under very favorable terms. And so he had the opportunity to scale the business, but he's kind of run into a roadblock that's preventing him from scaling this business. And I think that's a reality that we really have to think long and hard about. You have people like Chris, who are doing this wonderful job of bringing capital to these really, really cutting edge companies like Wheel the World and Keely Cat Wells Company, Making Space. But I think there's this tier below of kind of much more, should we just say, people that want to just stay small but have a bit of a growth trajectory right, and so how do we help them? And that's something that I really wrestled with in writing the book and continuing to wrestle with now, and that again, I feel that because of people like, Chris, some of the larger tranches of capital are now available. But how do you find bring capital to this much, much smaller entrepreneurs that may not generate the level of return that an investor like Chris would expect from his investment? 

Chris Maher Co-host

24:22

Yeah, and historically it's those small businesses that really drive the economy right, and so, whether it's SBA loans or SBIR and there's a number of different funding sources out there but my guess is is that Daniel, because he's nonverbal, has a disability, he's maybe not able to capture those funds like a typical small business entrepreneur might be able to. 

Bob Ludke Guest

24:53

And obviously Daniel has help from his parent. Iowa VR, Iowa Vocational Rehabilitation, helped him get his business up and running. But, yeah, he doesn't have, to your point Chris, the resources needed to find the resources right. And so how do you, how do you again, how do you help someone that is again has a fully functioning business? I mean it's paying taxes, it's contributing to the economy, hiring people, could hire more people. And so how can we do a better job helping those businesses scale to the level that they may want to scale to? 

Kelvin Crosby Host

25:28

Yeah, and this is where I, as an entrepreneur myself and dealing with the same issues, scaling my company to be able to mass produce my inventions and really make sure can I grow. This is an opportunity, and I think, if we do a quick brainstorming, what are ways we could do this on a smaller scale? Could we do a micro loan where here's five thousand dollars and let's grow your business. And once you get paid off, we'll work on the next one and work on the next one. I think there are opportunities if we build a system to really make this happen, I would love to explore this more. I mean, obviously, we're getting close to our end of our time here, but I think this is a real major need. But if you are the listener or have an idea, please put them in the LinkedIn or send us a comment or something and really help us brainstorm on this issue. Because obviously, Samaritan Partners our goal is a little bit bigger than this. But at the same time, this is a need. So how do we do this? Bob, what would be your recommendation?

Chris Maher Co-host

26:57

I am going to chime in. I know a group out of Atlanta that is setting up a micro fund that is giving out micro loans like we are talking about here. Bob, I don’t know if you know Aarti Sehgal who runs Synergies Work. And so she has an accelerator that supports entrepreneurs with disabilities and some very small kind of like cottage business type stuff, similar to Daniel, but that could be a multimillion dollar business. But that's exactly what her vision is to set up a micro fund that can give out micro loans. So let's get Artie on the on the podcast in the coming months for sure so we can dig into that. But as we are wrapping up here Bob, ultimately for corporate American to embrace universal design or inclusive design, at the end of the day what's going to really move the needle to where that becomes more mainstream and widespread is it's got to impact the bottom line for them. It's great that it can help people and the social aspect of it, but I think at the end of the day, it's got to impact the bottom line. And so ,what would your message be to those corporate leaders about universal design and the impact it can have on their organizations, not only culturally and socially, but economically? 

Bob Ludke Guest

28:13

Yeah, and we touched on this a little bit before, Chris, when you are innovating products, when you are developing service offerings that have universal design principles in mind, you are designing them for everyone. You're not excluding people from your market or your mindset. And so, if I was, you know, a board member of a large corporation or a C-suite executive, I would see it as my duty to make sure that that organization is seeking out the largest number of customers as possible. Not just today but in the future.

You never want to limit your customers. Again, go back to Disney Shanghai, you want those doors to be as wide open and as accessible and universally designed because you don't because you don't want anyone being turned away from your products. And so, if you create a workforce that brings that mindset to its job, and people with disabilities have that mindset, you will find that your innovative potential is going to go up astronomically, and that you are going to think of ways to design, to innovate, to produce better than you could have ever produced without your talent who identifies as disabled.

So embrace that, embrace the market opportunity, and look at it as a way to drive long-term value creation. Yes, of course, for society, but for your shareholders as well. I mean, let's couch it in those terms. That's the mindset du jour, that's perfectly fine. So, let's make this about, you know, generating returns for shareholders by growing your market exponentially over time and in a way that's sustainable. And that is a universal mindset. 

Kelvin Crosby Host

30:17

That's awesome. 

Chris Maher Co-host

30:18

So, bob, as we wrap up, how can people learn more about you and your work and your new book? 

Bob Ludke Guest

30:23

Well, thank you, Chris. The timing of your question is perfect. The book hits the market this week, or has actually hit the market. You and I are here in Vienna, Austria, together, at the Zero Project Conference, which is a wonderful international convening of disability-driven innovation and employment. The link in the LinkedIn profile that Kelvin and Chris will post has a link to the Value Inclusion website, which then, in turn, has a link to all the ways in which you can purchase the book in its electronic formats, the hardcover, the softcover format. And, coming soon, we will have both audio versions and, hopefully, a braille version of the book. That's one of the goals I really, really want to make the book accessible to everyone. 

Kelvin Crosby Host

31:12

Bob, it has been an honor having you on today's show and I tell you guys, if you got an idea on how to help people with disabilities really have access and to grow their businesses, like we just talked about, definitely go to LinkedIn and find today's show and put your ideas in there, because we want to know, because there might be another opportunity, because the goal is to give everybody access throughout the world. Well, that wraps up today's show Investing in Accessibility. Like I always say, go live beyond your challenges and we'll see you in two weeks. 

31:56

Thank you for listening to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast,  where we invest in change for accessibility, not wait for change. If you want to follow us, you can find us on YouTube or LinkedIn at @Samaritan Partners. If you would like to invest in Samaritan Partners, email Chris at chris@samaritanpartners.com. If you'd like to learn more about us, go to www.samaritanpartners.com. You can take the first step in investing in change by giving us five stars and sharing this podcast with everybody that you know, so we can spread the word, so that we can give access to all by Investing in Accessibility.