Kelvin Crosby: 0:06

Welcome to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast. We're not waiting for change, we're investing in it. Join us as we speak with entrepreneurs and thought leaders that are focused on creating a more accessible world.

Kelvin Crosby: 0:29

Hey, so good to see you, even though I can't see you, it's another beautiful day in the neighborhood and I'm so excited that you're here at Investing in Accessibility. I'm your host, Kelvin Crosby, and man, we're going to be diving into our co-host's brain today. I mean, it could be dangerous or it could be quite informative. So we're going to find out what today's show is all about in regards to what does Samaritan Partners really look at when they invest in businesses and making sure that it meets their venture capitalist goals. So, Chris Maher, welcome to Investing in Accessibility, man.

Chris Maher: 1:07

Hey, Kelvin, how are you, my friend, good to see you, as always, and to be with you.

Kelvin Crosby: 1:11

Yep, I'm excited about today. I think this is going to open people's eyes, literally and figuratively. It might even give people their eyes back. Hey, you know, that would be cool if I could see again.

Chris Maher: 1:24

That would be and hopefully it won't be craziness. There will be some stuff to understand here and at least get a view into how we think about investments at Samaritan and the types of companies we look at and the types of companies we ultimately invest in.

Kelvin Crosby: 1:43

Yeah, and I think that's going to be really, really important for those that are potentially looking for investment from Samaritan Partners to really understand are you meeting the model that Samaritan partners is going for. So let's dive right into it. When a company reaches out to you and they say, oh, I want to have you look at my company and see that we would be a good fit, let's start from the beginning.

Chris Maher: 2:15

Sure, and so so I think at at a, at a high level, I mean one companies know pretty clearly that Samaritan Partners invests in the disability sector, so companies that are serving the disability community, and so if they've done any homework at all, if they're not serving the community, then they should not be reaching out. So let's start with how we set up the fund, and this was intentional and we set up, obviously, the fund is a social impact fund, but we took it a step further and legally structured the fund as what's called a public benefit fund. And what that means is that there is a stated public good or social good with the fund, which really means that there's a stated social good with the investment focus of the fund. And that definition and focus is early stage for-profit companies, obviously, that are providing products and services to and or creating employment opportunities for people from the disability community. And the reason that I chose to do it that way has a lot to do with a concept called Conscious Capitalism, which is not a concept that I created. It was actually originally coined and developed and written about by John Mackey, who is the founder and CEO, the original founder and CEO of Whole Foods, the supermarket chain. And that whole idea is that businesses can be about more than just profit. They can also be about purpose and mission, and so part of that is also about stakeholder alignment. And so, by setting up the fund as a public benefit fund, it creates alignment across all the key stakeholders, from the get-go. Me and my fund, all of my LPs or investors, which can be individuals, families, organizations, institutions and the companies we invest in, and, ultimately, the community that we aim to serve, which is the disability community.

Chris Maher: 4:35

So two key aspects of that concept of conscious capitalism is having that higher purpose, so purpose along with profit, and you can do both of those side by side. The stakeholder alignment it's not just about shareholders, which is really kind of developed over the last several decades, where it's become much more about the shareholder, and this is about employees, customers, investors, the community that you're focused on serving. It's also about values, right. So this concept of conscious culture is really about it's values-based, it's behavior-led, and then, ultimately, it's also about leadership. Leadership is a key component of this right that there's a strong moral compass. There's integrity it is about leading by example around profit and and and purpose. And so at a high level, just philosophically, that that's where I approached the fund and certainly the companies that we look at.

Chris Maher: 5:38

We're hoping and looking for a similar philosophical approach, and that's typically not a problem with people who have entrepreneurs that have started companies that serve the disability community. Most of the time, those founders I'd say 99% of the time those founders have a very direct connection to the problems that they're trying to solve. In many cases they have lived experience with that area of disability that they are building products and solutions for or creating employment around, and so that's typically not an issue. But philosophically, at a high level, that's where we start. We believe that companies can be for-profit organizations driving a social mission and do both very well and be successful.

Chris Maher: 6:21

There's a growing body of research. You look at two decades ago and the whole idea of social impact investing and mission-driven for-profit businesses and ESG and all of that.

Chris Maher: 6:32

There wasn't a lot of data around, can you really succeed financially while having a social mission? Well, fast forward now, a couple of decades, and there is actually a large body of evidence that shows, over the long term, companies that are focused on mission and purpose, in addition to profitability, over the long term actually perform better than companies that are just solely focused on profit. In the short term, a lot of companies that are just focused on profit will look better and perform better than companies that also have a purpose and a mission, but over the long term, the companies that are focused on both and managing both are actually performing better. I think there's a couple of reasons for that. I think one is that there's a demographic change that is happening in the country. I look at my oldest daughter, who's about to graduate college. She and her friends, they vote with their wallets. If there are companies that are not treating people and or the world nicely, they're not going to buy their brands or interact with those companies.

Kelvin Crosby: 8:09

As we look at all of this one of the things is really understanding your business. But one of the things that I've always run into issues with in the VC world is knowing the right time to approach a VC, and so let's talk about the term early stage capital. So is that a seed run? Is that a round A? Is that pre-seed? What does that mean in your terms? Because I think that's something that a lot of entrepreneurs that are looking to reach out to you could really benefit from understanding, like when is the right time, if they feel like high level that they're meeting what you're looking for, is the best time at what stage of their business?

Chris Maher: 8:53

It's a great question and I think that, so I'll answer that in a couple of parts.

Chris Maher: 8:59

So first, it's I believe that entrepreneurs should start to develop conversation and dialogue and relationships and build rapport with VCs and investors, maybe individuals, professional angels, as quickly as they can. Because as investors, a lot of times you're investing in the people behind the business as much as you are the business itself. And so, as an investor, I really spend a lot of time getting to know the founders and the leaders of the organization because that's going to give me a view into them as operators. And so start early. You may not be asking for money, but you just want to introduce yourself, you want to introduce your company, look for some advice and some guidance so then when you're ready to, when you are ready to raise, you can reach out, and there's already a relationship there. So I think the earlier the better to develop those relationships and to start that dialogue.

Chris Maher: 9:59

What's really interesting in the present venture market is the definitions of, you know, angel friends and family, pre-seed, seed, series A. Those lines have gotten a little blurred. You know, back in the day, pre-seed for the most part meant pre-revenue and there was a lot of investors that were focused on that super early stage. Hey, we're finding companies that are pre-revenue, that might even be pre MVP of a product, but they've got a prototype or maybe it's just a great idea and they want to be one of the first checks in and they're going to place a lot of bets there and hope that a few or a handful of them can can hit it and and and then they'll make their return. But there's a volume play there. Anecdotally, what I've seen from talking to other investors and talking to entrepreneurs, some of those early stage investors have now shifted a little bit to wanting to see some revenue, to see a little bit of that, as they call it, product market fit, where you've got clients that are signing contracts and paying you money to at least a little bit of that.

Chris Maher: 11:05

But you typically have kind of like, hey, I'm a founder, I've got an idea, I'm going to either self-fund, kind of like what you did, find some friends and family to provide some capital so I can just go build my product or a prototype.

Chris Maher: 11:17

And then you get to precede where you're ready to go to market Historically like, hey, I'm ready to go to market, I need to raise some capital so I can get to finish my product, then start getting my first clients. And then you'd get to seed where, hey, I've got revenue, but now I want to accelerate my revenue, I want to hire more salespeople and put more dollars towards my marketing, build out my product roadmap. And then you get to series A, which is where, hey, we're going to go raise an even larger chunk of money to really accelerate this opportunity, because we have shown that we've not only got product market fit but we are starting to scale. And then we really want to scale that as quickly as we can, as we talked about in a previous episode, where, when you've got venture money coming in, scaling that growth as quickly as you can to get to that liquidity event or exit becomes very important for you as an entrepreneur.

Kelvin Crosby: 12:07

As I'm understanding, because I want to make sure we're all clear here. So really, the best time to reach out is as soon as you are ready to move forward with your idea, your business, your concept to nurture the relationship. And you're playing the long game with this relationship. You're not playing the bang bang, thank you, ma'am, type of game on this type of relationship. It's going to be sending you like information, like, oh, here we are, here, here's this, here's that, and oh, can we get a meeting just to see what your thoughts on this next idea that we're working on, on this development. And so where do you start finding yourself? Like okay, so they've, they built this relationship with me, or I built this relationship with them. We're starting to build trust. I'm starting to see fruit from what they're doing, whether it's pre or post revenue. Like where did that? Like you're like all right, now we can start having a money conversation.

Chris Maher: 13:13

Yeah, and so I think you're spot on.

Chris Maher: 13:16

And as an investor, what I try to do is add value before I've invested, especially if I like the founders and I like the business that they're in. Because if I can do that before I'm an investor and on their cap table, hopefully when they do raise money they're going to reach out, I'm going to be one of their first phone calls and they're going to say hey, we're kicking off our round. There's a spot in it for you, for Samaritan, if you want it, because I've, I've shown them that I've, that I've added value. And so. But when they kick off that round and, as you said, there are some VCs they don't come in until, say, series A, so later stage. But you want to get to know them when you're at the pre-seed and seed stage and you want to keep them abreast, as you said, keep them in the loop as you're progressing and things are getting better and better hopefully. So when you do kick off your A, they're already comfortable with you, they've got a really good feel for your business and they're, hopefully, the due diligence process is easier and shorter and there's a rapport there. But once there's a company that kicks off around and for us we invest between pre-seed and series A. We also reserve capital for follow-on investment as portfolio companies grow.

Chris Maher: 14:31

But if a company that we're interested in is kicking off around, then we go through a due diligence process. There's kind of two steps to that, or at least the way that we approach it. So one is looking at somewhat of a higher level around three things. One is the first place we always start is what's the social good or the social impact that they're driving, right? So what are those products and services or those employment opportunities they're creating, that they're driving for the community, and what's their ability to do that at scale and in a sustainable way? That's the first thing we look at, if we can check that box.

Chris Maher: 15:07

Then the second thing we look at actually are the founders and the team behind the business. My experience as an entrepreneur and I spent 25 years as an operator and leader of a variety of VC-backed businesses is the people behind the business at that early stage are a critically important determinant in the success of that business in the future. And so getting to know that leadership team and the founders really well, because you're going to be partners with them and they're going to be driving the bus, but you're hopefully they're helping them along the way. You want to get a very good feel for those people, and for me, integrity and honesty and transparency and partnership, coachability is really, really important, especially if it's a first time founder and someone who hasn't done this before or a team that has not done this before. So that's the second thing we look at, and if we're comfortable with the team, then the third thing we look at is we really start to dig into the commercial model.

Chris Maher: 16:08

So is it direct to consumer? Is it B2B or B2B2C? Is it recurring revenue, subscription services, is it more episodic or transactional? And then we go to that. And then we go even deeper than that on the diligence side. But the first part is social impact, ability to scale it in a sustainable way, the people behind the business. And then what's the commercial model and what's their go-to-market? How are they going to make money or generate revenue?

Kelvin Crosby: 16:39

This is really good information. I mean, I'm really realizing, wow, okay. So nurturing the relationship with the VC is really really important early on and, honestly, one of my biggest mentors in helping me get started is saying you never ask for the dollar. You're always asking what do you think about my product and how would you make it better? And giving that VC, that person that you're meeting with, or the group of people to be a part of the team, and not necessarily they're giving you funding, but they feel and have the, they build an emotional attachment to your idea. And I think this is really really, really important because, at the end of the day, if you're going to be a social gig product or a service or a program, you got to have this soft skills in place, because I feel like there's a lot of entrepreneurs that don't, and this is really really important when you're thinking about all of this. So just to kind of make sure we're all on track here.

Kelvin Crosby: 17:54

So first thing is that you need to start the relationship with the VC early on, nurture the relationship and then, as you get ready to do your round and you meet Samaritan Partners requirements, then you can start showing, oh, we're going to do a round, would you like to be interested in it? And then that opens up the door. You're not asking for money yet, you're still building that relationship. And if the VC really sees, oh, we've been a part of this, it's been fun watching them grow, mature, become the product that or a service or program that they become, and then what's next? At that point, Chris, you've done your due diligence, Chris, and you're like okay, I'm ready. What's the next step in that process?

Chris Maher: 18:44

Sure, before I answer that, because you've said a couple of really important things in what you just said. The diligence and the evaluation. It's a two-way street. So, of course, VCs we're doing our due diligence on the company, on the people that are behind the company, but founders need to do the same due diligence on the investors, whether it's an individual or it's a venture capital firm, because it's a partnership, right, and so you want to make sure that you're as comfortable with them as they are with you. And that's partly can they give you money? But it's also how else what other value can they bring to the table, right? So when you're meeting these VCs early on, yeah, it's giving them a chance to meet you and to get comfortable with you, but it's also a chance for you to get to meet them, and you'll notice very quickly if VCs really mean it. I'm like, hey, I know you're not raising now, but how can I help? Can I make some introductions? You know, do you want to pick my brain about anything you're doing around your go-to-market or your product? Take them up on that. It's because it's a little bit of a test. And if they follow through, if you'd say hey, you know, I'd love an introduction to this company or that company. Well, see if they follow through. If they don't, you know that might be a sign of what they're going to be like as a member of your cap table. And so it is a two-way street. You got to be doing your evaluation along that journey as well.

Chris Maher: 20:10

What I have found, which is so refreshing and I admire it so much, I'd say 99% of the entrepreneurs in this disability space that I meet, they actually talk a lot about. I don't want to just take money from an investor. I want to make sure that that investor and that money comes with an understanding of our mission, that they believe in the social mission. We've got a kindred spirit in terms of what we're trying to do in terms of our social impact, and ideally, they could also add value, either operationally or strategically, product, go-to-market, introductions, et cetera. And I admire that because I was CEO of a company once where we were running low on capital and I needed to go raise money and I couldn't be too choosy and I had to take money from a venture capitalist who I knew wasn't the right partner for the business and that they weren't going to be helpful other than giving us money and letting us to continue to run the business. But I had to take that money because I was in that situation and so I admire entrepreneurs that one are thinking about it's more than just money, but also that can build a business and put themselves in a position where they can be choosy about who they bring onto their cap table. So, now to your question about when a company says hey Chris, we're raising money, I've got a relationship and we're ready to go. That's when you really start to dig into the commercial model and also the social model of how are they going to be able to scale the delivery of the good that they're doing in terms of their products and services, but also how are they going to commercialize, how are they going to generate revenue and ultimately profit?

Chris Maher: 21:52

My personal background and where we lean as a fund is more in the business to business or business to business to consumer recurring revenue, so tech enabled software and services, so that subscription or recurring revenue model. I've done some direct to consumer in my career. It's really hard, it takes time and it takes a lot of money to go out there and acquire customers direct to consumer, one by one. You have to spend a lot of advertising and marketing dollars and kind of get on this hamster wheel of customer acquisition, and so we certainly skew towards certain types of business models, for sure.

Chris Maher: 22:33

Now, that's not to say that we wouldn't invest in a company that has a direct-to-consumer element to it, but we're really looking for them to be monetizing or commercializing, mostly on the enterprise side, the B2B or the B2B2C side, and that's just our personal preference, right, there are some VCs out there that all they do is direct-to-consumer. There's other VCs out there that don't mind that it's a more transactional, one-off purchase business. We tend to like subscription businesses. One, we're familiar with it. Two, we've got experience running those businesses and growing businesses like that. But three, from a financial return standpoint, recurring revenue businesses tend to get a better multiple than a one-off transaction business or a purely services business.

Kelvin Crosby: 23:17

So now, your model, your social, your social impact, so there's that you're a major component for Samaritan Partners, is that's, that's going to be a number one thing. But then how are you going to scale it? Is it going to be B2B love that? Is it going to be B2B, or are they going to be B2C or B2B2C? I mean, try to say that five times fast, that's a tongue twister.

Kelvin Crosby: 23:46

But all that to say, really thinking about your model will make a major difference in regards to your relationship. And thinking, especially when you're early stage, you can kind of adjust your model early on without having to make major like, well, this is where we're at, we're stuck here. I mean, I'm not going to bring any businesses into this that I know that I'm very close to. There's one business that I am very, very close to that I work with all the time, and they tried to change their model and it messed up their community, and now they've had to reel back and put back in the old model and then had to figure out a skill, a different direction, and so picking the right model is a really important thing.

Chris Maher: 24:40

I was just going to say.

Chris Maher: 24:41

I think you're touching on something that's really important and I think what you were just talking about there is a concept that not enough entrepreneurs think about early in the process when they're founding a company and in the early stages of building. And it's product market fit. So in our previous episode about a lifestyle versus an exit business, we talked a bit about addressable market, what your total addressable market is, the TAM. That's an important thing that professional investors, VCs look at to decide whether or not it's venture worthy in terms of investment. Is the market that you're targeting big enough? And, as we talked about with See Me Cane and you were so smart and you you did that you went through that process and said, hey, this is pretty niche in terms of what I'm doing.

Chris Maher: 25:28

Another thing that's critically important that VCs look at a lot is it's what's called product market fit, and that's where you were going with your comments before. And so you want to make sure that you actually have a solution where there's a problem. And so are you solving a problem that is worth solving and making sure that you've got a product market fit. I was part of a company that had incredible technology. It was a beautiful marketplace, but it was a solution looking for a problem.

Chris Maher: 26:03

We didn't have product market fit, and that made it really really hard to grow the business. And so identifying that product market fit, you know, is the problem that you're solving for worthy of being solved for, and is it a big enough problem? But if you're building a solution and then going out and looking for the problem that it solves, you're going to be in a tough spot. And so getting out in the market, talking to prospective customers, getting their feedback, doing that due diligence of your own to make sure that what you're building is really something that is going to solve a problem is critically important in that process, and professional investors like venture capitalists take a very hard and deep look at that.

Kelvin Crosby: 26:50

This is so important. So, just to give people an example of figuring out your product market fit, because I think some people they're not even sure what that means, and I mean, obviously, if you come to a VC, you might want to understand what that is. And like, for example, the See Me Cane. See Me Cane is designed for visually impaired individuals to solve a problem that one out of three visually impaired people get hit by cars. And I went and did my interviews. I think I'm now at about 500 people now, some recorded and some not, And out of the 500, I have about 400 that have been hit by cars. You know, and that kind of throws off my numbers a little bit, we got to one out of three people get hit by cars.

Kelvin Crosby: 27:40

But this is a problem that I'm solving. And so, thinking about that in what you're doing in regards to your product, is it or a service or a program? What problem are you solving before you go looking at to build your idea, concept or whatever you're doing to really grow your business? And so I think this is really, really important to have that idea, so that that is a problem that I'm solving and hopefully that's helpful for you to understand. Like, this is what you need to do and this is how you will do that. Chris kind of talk about okay for Samaritan Partners, are you guys investing in pre-revenue or post-revenue businesses?

Chris Maher: 28:24

For what we do at Samaritan as an investor, how do you mitigate the risk around product market fit? For us, we don't invest in pre-revenue companies, at least as of right now. So of the six companies we've invested in so far, all of them were revenue generating at the time that we invested and a couple of them, their rounds were called pre-seed but they still had signed contracts, paying customers, low six figures in revenue so they had demonstrated at least some product market fit to an extent, whereas if you're pre-revenue as an investor, you're taking on more risk. And so that's just our preference and our decision as investors at Samaritan is we're not investing in pre-revenue companies at this point. So it's a really good question and it's something that entrepreneurs need to probe about and really flesh out when they're talking to VCs. Typically, when you're an entrepreneur raising a round, you need to find a lead investor, and there's a couple elements to that. The lead investor typically is writing the largest check, but they're also helping to set the valuation of the round. And that's a negotiation, right. Like entrepreneurs may say, hey, we're raising $2 million and we think you know and where we are as a business and where our revenue is, we think it's justified that the pre-money is $10 million. Well, you may find a lead investor that says hey, we're willing to invest half of that. You know you're raising two million, we'll lead with a million, but we think the valuation is only nine million. And so when you're talking to investors or prospective investors, as an entrepreneur you want to get a sense of what's their check size, what's their typical check size? Do they lead rounds? And if they do, what's the typical check size on that?

Chris Maher: 30:25

For us right now, at Samaritan, we are only what's called co-investing. So we're not. We haven't led any rounds yet. That's not to say that we're not open to that, but we haven't at this point, so we have only co-invested. So for us as investors, we want to get to know the other investors in the round, especially the lead investor, because the lead investor is going to set the valuation and the terms of that round.

Chris Maher: 30:51

And so, as an entrepreneur, you want to identify. You may talk to Samaritan and we'd be like yep, hey, we're in for X amount, but we're not going to lead. Great, Chris, I can put you down for that. And then you've got to go find to lead. But if you can get a number of people of co-investors lined up. That, in many instances, can help you find the lead, because a lead will feel more comfortable to lead if they know that you've already got the rest of the round filled with co-investors. So it's really important as an entrepreneur, and listen, VCs are used to these questions. You should not be afraid to ask these questions. You should ask like hey, what's your average check size? Do you lead? Do you only co-invest? Those are all things that should be on your list of questions when you're talking to VCs.

Kelvin Crosby: 31:40

What is Samaritan's average check size?

Chris Maher: 31:43

So for us, as I said earlier, we're investing in so far pre-seed to Series A. We try to take a diversified approach to that. Of our six investments so far, we've invested in two at pre-seed, two at seed and two at Series A. Our checks so far have been between $50,000 and $300,000. And again, the intention is that we will reserve capital for follow-on investment as portfolio companies grow. Those check sizes kind of line up pretty nicely with the stages. So pre-seed, our checks are on that smaller range up to A, where those checks are at the larger range. And again, that's a perfect question to ask a VC when you're having that conversation about investing.

Kelvin Crosby: 32:29

Well, I think this is really insightful because, at the end of the day, knowing what you're getting into is extremely important. I mean, I know and I want to encourage you, obviously, if you're an entrepreneur and you're really thinking about going after investment money as Chris said earlier do not bring in the wrong investor. Really, make sure it's the right investor, even though it might be painful having to wait another couple of months. I mean, I'm telling you the pain is real, the difficulty is real, the struggle is real. But do not allow that pain, that struggle, that difficulty of the funds to bring in the wrong investor. Because for me, I brought in one investor and I pretty much don't need another, because this guy will carry me pretty much all the way through the rest of the way.

Kelvin Crosby: 33:30

I mean, so that's where making the right investment and the right decision for your business is extremely important. So I encourage you to look at your company and really look at it and say is Samaritan Partners meeting my goals, my mission for my business and all of that? But first of all, make sure that you're not trying to just grasp at money so that you can pay your payroll. Yeah, you got to pay payroll. Yes, you got to pay your payroll. Yes, you got to pay your bills. Yes, you got to build the product or service or the program Like you got to do all that. But there's ways to do that without taking the wrong investment.

Chris Maher: 34:17

So, Kelvin, can I make a couple comments here, because I think you make some really, really good comments. Your key investor for your business believes in you and believes in the social mission of your business and has been happy to support you financially, which is critical, right? Am I making an assumption that they're not really involved operationally? They trust that you are going to drive the business because you're the subject matter expert.

Chris Maher: 34:45

So that's wonderful. I think of investors as coming in kind of three flavors. And this was my experience as a four-time CEO, president of different organizations over the last 25 years and working with venture capitalists and investors. And generally speaking, for me, they came in three flavors and I think it's kind of applicable to anybody. You've got the investor like yours, which they bring capital to the table, they believe in the mission of your business and the impact that you're striving for, but they're kind of a silent partner. They leave it up to you to run the business, Right. and that's a great investor to have. You don't want every investor to kind of be involved operationally and kind of pitching in and trying to help you to do what you do. But if you can have an investor that can give you capital, believes in the mission of your business and then lets you do your thing, and you just they're like you know what, Kelvin, you know what you're doing, here's my money, I believe in what you're doing, let me know how I can help, but they're pretty much a silent investor. That's a great investor to have and you want some of those people on your cap table. On the other end of the spectrum, you've got the investor that brings capital to the table. In the situation of the part of the market that you and I are in which is mission-driven and social impact for-profit businesses, you want that investor to believe in the social mission of your business and the impact that you're driving. And, thirdly, they also can bring operational or strategic value to the table. They've got operational background of their own. They know go-to-market, they know product development, marketing, et cetera or maybe they're just subject matter experts on your space. They've got tons of connections across the industry and they can help you strategically from that standpoint. That is also a fantastic investor to have on your cap table.

Chris Maher: 36:42

The dangerous investor is the one that falls in between those two things. They bring money, they're not a silent partner, but they want to get involved and they think they know better, but they really don't. And that can be a very distracting and disruptive and counterproductive investor who sticks their nose in things they don't really understand your business or the market. They're pushing you and your team to do things that, honestly, are just spinning your cycles, but you have to do it because they've asked for it. Those are the type of investors you really need to try to uncover in the process of your fundraising and, in my opinion, if at all possible, avoid bringing those people onto your cap table. I unfortunately, over my career, have worked with investors like that and it can be really really challenging. So kind of three flavors of investors that I think entrepreneurs really want to try to identify when they're going through that fundraising process, two of which are great to have on your cap table, one of which can possibly be problematic for you.

Kelvin Crosby: 37:47

So that's an important thing. I mean, if you want apples, oranges or bananas depending on what one you want and how you're going to run your business. I couldn't resist that one.

Chris Maher: 37:58

That's a good one. I like it. I like it.

Kelvin Crosby: 38:03

I mean, this has been fun. I mean, if you want more of this, let us know on the LinkedIn post that you're like we love this episode and would want more like this. Let us know.

Chris Maher: 38:19

You and I have talked about this, but two, I think, interesting conversations off of the back of this one that you and I have had is let's go get a couple of other VCs, and VCs focused in and around our sector, and let's talk to them about how they're approaching the investment process, so like a little mini panel and then let's also get some entrepreneurs who have successfully raised money, or maybe who are going through the process of raising money, and get them to talk about that experience. Just a thought, but it would be interesting, if our audience would like to, for us to do one or both of those episodes as follow-ups.

Kelvin Crosby: 39:01

Put in the comments that we want more of this style of episode where we talk about VC world, we talk about entrepreneurs and what their experience is going through this process. So if this is something that you are like, we want more of this. So go to LinkedIn, go to Chris Maher and right there and we'll have a link in the description on the podcast notes and you can click on directly to that post. You hit there and then just put in the comment saying we want more of that or something like that. So we know that you guys want more of these type of podcasts as well. So we can bring in VCs and see what their thoughts are. We can bring in entrepreneurs that are currently in the rounds of seeds and all the different levels and see what how that looks and provide support and all those different things. So if this is something that you'd like, check out that LinkedIn link in the description or go to Chris Maher's post on LinkedIn. Chris, is there any last minute things that you want to say before we wrap up?

Chris Maher: 40:10

No, I've enjoyed this conversation with you today and I think that for entrepreneurs, and you said this earlier, it's like start the dialogue and the relationship early with especially professional investors, to get to know them, build a rapport. They get to know you, you get to know them. It's a two-way street. You're both doing due diligence on each other. Try to uncover who's really going to add value, whether they're just bringing capital or they can also bring some additional operational or strategic value to the table, because it's important who you bring onto your cap table, and you ideally would have investors who can help you grow your business. It's not just money. Some of them will be just bringing money, but others you really want to help you drive your business forward and to scale it as best you can. And then it's business model right. You got to think. You got to think about addressable market early on. You have to really think about product market fit.

Chris Maher: 41:08

What is the problem you're actually solving? Is it really a big enough problem to be solved? Don't just be building solutions, searching for a problem. Get out there and talk to the prospective customers or the clientele and get that feedback as early in the process as possible and then continue to get that feedback as you move forward. And then think about how you're going to commercialize it. Is it direct to consumer, is it B2B, is it B2B2C, is it recurring revenue, is it one-off transactions?

Chris Maher: 41:34

And I know that sounds like a lot, but that's the life of an entrepreneur. Like Kelvin, in our last episode, like you've done all of that right, you've thought through all of that multiple times as your business has progressed, and that's the life of an entrepreneur. It's going to be up and down. It's a rollercoaster ride, right, my friend? I've been there. You're there right now. It is a rollercoaster ride and you need to not get too high when things are going well and not get too low when things aren't going great and surround yourself with great people and that's not just the people in your business helping you manage it every day, but also, hopefully, investors that are on your cap table that can also support you in that process and in that mission.

Kelvin Crosby: 42:17

That wraps up investing in accessibility. As I always say, go live beyond your challenges and I will see you in two weeks. Thank you for listening to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast where we invest in change for accessibility, not wait for change. If you want to follow us, you can find us on YouTube or LinkedIn at @Samaritan Partners. If you would like to invest in Samaritan Partners, email Chris at chris@samaritanpartners. com. If you'd like to learn more about us, go to www. samaritanpartners. com. You can take the first step in investing in change by giving us five stars and sharing this podcast with everybody that you know, so we can spread the word, so that we can give access to all, by Investing in Accessibility.