Kelvin Crosby: 0:06

Welcome to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast. We're not waiting for change, we're investing in it. Join us as we speak with entrepreneurs and thought leaders that are focused on creating a more accessible world.

Kelvin Crosby: 0:30

Hey, so good to see you, even though I can't see you. It's another beautiful day in the neighborhood and I'm so excited that you're here at Investing in Accessibility. My name is Kelvin Crosby and here is my co-host, Chris Maher. How you doing, man?

Chris Maher: 0:48

Good Kelvin, I'm much better now that I'm here with you and seeing you and so things are good, my friend. I'm the only person on today's show that can see.

Kelvin Crosby: 0:56

Yeah, but the thing is, the guest that we have today, he's a once upon a time potentially was a spy, but he he was never able to tell us the truth because he's probably under one of the top secret protocols, whatever you know. And so I'm excited about today's guest.

Chris Maher: 1:15

I'm really excited. Our guest today, I think he surpasses the Dos Equis beerman of being the most interesting man in the world, for sure.

Kelvin Crosby: 1:24

So I'm excited'm excited. Well, maybe we flip it around a little bit. Let me introduce our guest. Mike May. Welcome to the Investing in Accessibility podcast man.

Mike May: 1:34

Yeah, nice to be here, Mr. Crosby.

Kelvin Crosby: 1:38

I'm excited that you're here and I tell you, we're two blindies together. We're trying to make life, you know. And I think what's awesome is you and I have known each other for quite a while and I've always been inspired by what you've been able to accomplish. And I still remember the first GPS for blind people that you were the main driver force of developing that. I forget what the name of it was. It was the. What was that GPS

Mike May: 2:11

The first ever one was at Arkenstone. It was a map-only system called Atlas Speaks and I still have a version of it today and it's amazing because it's so important when you're getting around if you know before you go.

Kelvin Crosby: 2:32

I mean truly as visually impaired people, we've got to know where we're going before we get there. I tell you, I'm not sure where we're going at the moment, so I'm going to hand it back over to Chris. That way we're going in the right direction.

Chris Maher: 2:48

I could listen to you two gentlemen talk all day. So, yeah, we're super excited to have Mike May with us today. Mike is part entrepreneur, part evangelist, part navigation tech advisor, Paralympic athlete, we think was a spy at some point or worked for a spy agency and, ultimately, one of the best all around good people in our world today. And, Mike, so good to see you. You've been, I met you shortly after I launched Samaritan Partners. I met you at the first conference I went to, which was I think it was M- Enabling in like the fall of 2023. And you were so nice and kind and generous in that first meeting and said, hey, here's my card, and if you ever need anything, let me know. And then I've proceeded to see you at every single event I've ever been to since then.

Mike May: 3:36

You're everywhere.

Chris Maher: 3:37

No, you are. You are, like I don't know when you sleep.

Mike May: 3:41

That's why we run into each other. We're both everywhere.

Chris Maher: 3:47

Yeah, well it's so great to have you here today. Welcome.

Mike May: 3:50

Yeah, it's great to be here and, Kelvin, I've got to say that when I and we'll get to this at some point. But I have a little bit of vision and one of the most exciting things to me about having some vision are bright colors and bright lights. So I always love the fact that at conferences I know when you're around, because here you come cruising by with a See Me Cane, which is high contrast, it's high visibility and I can see you, you know, 10, 20 yards away.

Kelvin Crosby: 4:25

Yeah, well, I mean, I'll never forget you pulling me, like hey, yo you. And you didn't know who I was, but you're like I see that, and then you're like, now I know who it is.

Mike May: 4:39

Well, yeah, because somebody else might have a See Me Cane. So I don't want to immediately say Kelvin, I just know that it's a See Me and I need to check it out because it's. You know, it's one of the challenges when you're blind is people identification. You're at a conference, you know there's lots of people you know, but unless you hear the voice, or you hear them calling out their dog's name, you don't know who's there. And so I've really enjoyed the fact that I can always find you

Kelvin Crosby: 5:14

Yep, yep, it's always interesting. I mean we're getting a little off track today, but when we get into this world, I mean like I'm starting to get into some new groups and I'm like all right, buddies, like you got to tell me who you are every single time, whether or not I understand your voice or not, like because I'm also deaf, so don't come at me with hey yo, how you doing? I'm like are you Bob? Are you Jim? I mean I have no idea.

Mike May: 5:48

Yeah, he's a guessing game.

Kelvin Crosby: 5:50

Yep, exactly, exactly. So, all right, well, we're going to hand it back over to Chris so that we get back on track.

Chris Maher: 6:00

Thank you, Kelvin, and it's. I'm feeling a little insecure on today's podcast episode because I'm with two guys that are so technologically advanced. Before we, before we started recording, you two were going through a whole bunch of technical stuff that that I didn't understand half of what you were talking about. We had a little technical glitch to get started here and, as everybody knows, all of our listeners, Kelvin is the technical brains behind this operation. I show up and we do the episodes and then I write a little copy and post on LinkedIn, but but Kelvin handles everything in the backend.

Chris Maher: 6:36

And and, Mike, when I see you at conferences, you've always got something new that you're testing out, some sort of assistive technology or device. Yeah, so I'm a bit of a Luddite on today's show and feeling a bit insecure. But, Mike, let's start from the beginning, and your background and your lived experience, I think, has informed so much of what you have done in your professional career from not being born blind, as far as I can remember, and had an accident when you were a young child, and then how your parents raised you and then you became this amazing Olympic athlete, paralympic athlete, and then an entrepreneur, and now you're, you know, consulting and advising large corporates as well as startups. And then in in there you worked for the CIA. So, can you start from the beginning and kind of take us through the arc of that and how your, how your lived experience has really informed the progression of your career?

Mike May: 7:33

Sure, I should mention for anybody who knows me and has heard my voice before you'll notice a bit of a speech impediment due to some impact on my mouth and my throat from cancer that I had in 2016 with chemo and radiation, and it's super annoying, but it's what it is. So, just if you're hearing that, I'm just giving you a heads up. So you know I can trace a lot of my approach to the world back to my mother. She was an amazing person and a hero and the one that really inspired my curiosity. I went blind, totally blind, from a chemical explosion when I was three and then I had a stem cell and cornea transplant in 2000, which gave me some low vision. So it was pretty amazing to have 43 years of total blindness and then, all of a sudden, I could see and it was overwhelming, it was fascinating, it was a lot of things, but it gave me some useful vision. But in a lot of other ways I had to learn to rely on my blindness skills. So braille, cane, dog and not to rely on the vision for any kind of mobility stuff. So that was just a learning process, but those are two key milestones in my life.

Mike May: 9:12

And, Chris, you mentioned the CIA. I was in graduate school in Washington DC and living with a bunch of guys and the CIA was recruiting at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, where we were on DuPont Circle, and they sort of joked about applying for the CIA because it was not exactly a cool thing to do back then and I thought, wow, I bet they've never had a blind person work for them. So I interviewed and it took a while, but one thing led to another and they hired me and I worked out at their main headquarters in McLean, Virginia, as a political risk analyst on Africa.

Chris Maher: 9:58

Wow, how long did you do that for Mike?

Mike May: 10:02

It was a bit over a year, it was during graduate school, it was part-time and you know, when I graduated it was sort of a decision. Do I stay and work for the government? Which seemed, I mean, it was interesting the CIA and all that but it is still government bureaucracy and that really wasn't my cup of tea. So I went back out to California and ended up working for a bank and then a defense contractor. And then I got into the entrepreneurial world in 1984 with some buddies from that defense contractor and, being music lovers, we always were interested in how could you have a music source that wasn't damaging the medium, which would be vinyl. And so we came up, after four years and $7 million of venture capital, the world's first laser turntable called the Phenal Turntable, laser Turntable.

Mike May: 11:14

And that was a fascinating experience because at the time the CD had not started, it was just being researched and developed between '84 and '88. It went from an idea to an actual product and eventually it blew us out of the water. But in the process, you know, we developed this amazing device that played standard vinyl records with a laser instead of a needle. It's when I met Stevie Wonder, because my partner said, you know we got to raise some money here. I want you to go find Gordon Getty, the oil tycoon and Stevie Wonder. And it took me about two years before I got to Stevie Wonder. It wasn't easy, but that's where I first met him and that was my first startup and I realized that was really more my calling and than working for a bank or a government agency.

Chris Maher: 12:20

I told you listeners, we're talking to the most interesting man in the world and we're just getting started. Mike, how long after that did you found the Sendero Group?

Mike May: 12:31

In the 90s the first kind of accessible computer stuff started happening. We went from the VersaBraille and Apple QE and some of that stuff. And so after I went to Arkenstone where we had the first GPS and map products, they decided that GPS was not ready for primetime and so they canceled the GPS product. And I said, okay, how about if I take it, if you spin it off and you know raising money, and almost running out of money and you know being the last one on the payroll that got paid and all the growing pains of a startup.

Kelvin Crosby: 13:36

Yep, yep. I mean I would love to ask you this question. When the vinyl laser thing went down and you had that failure, like how did that prepare you to be able to launch Sendero Group and really prepare yourself to build that?

Mike May: 13:56

Well, it probably went down the way that it was meant to go because of the CD coming onto the scene. There's nothing we could have done differently to make it work. But we did have to give up a lot of control and ownership of the company, as we raised. $7 million back in 1984 was a lot of money, and so we had to give away a lot of the company, and because we did that, our vultures, I mean venture capitalists they booted us out and so that was.

Mike May: 14:35

You know that's how that ended up coming down. And eventually they sold it off and the laser turntable still exists, owned by a Japanese company. So it wasn't a total bust, but it was for us, and at that point my buddy, Rob and I, both went off and started some other things and, you know, that thing led to another thing led to another thing.

Chris Maher: 14:59

Yeah, and Mike, in parallel to that you, you were world-class skier and, and I believe you stood on the podium at the 1984 Paralympics. Is that correct?

Mike May: 15:13

Yeah, the '84 was the, well the Paralympics kind of evolved. It used to be called the World Winter Games and the goal was to be in more parity with the regular Olympics, and that didn't really happen until '88. But there was a world competition in '82 in Switzerland and then '84, and I was on the podium on both of those events. And then we went from, my guide and I went down to Sarajevo to the regular Olympics, because that's when they had the first demo of disabled skiers at the Olympics and they didn't include blind people. So we kind of crashed the party and ended up skiing at the Sarajevo Olympics on Mount Jahorina and we were the first ever to be in the Paralympics, albeit uninvited.

Kelvin Crosby: 16:14

Well, I'm just fascinated. I've known Mike for a long time, but I've never heard his whole story.

Chris Maher: 16:21

Yeah, and and Mike, as a an elite athlete while you're, you were doing that while you were getting into entrepreneurship and it overlapped for a period of time and then you continued with your entrepreneurial journey. Were there skills, experiences from being an athlete or lessons from being an elite athlete that helped you transition to that entrepreneurship or made you a better entrepreneur?

Mike May: 16:48

Well, it's all interconnected in terms of your approach to life, and I think for blind people, we always have to be looking at alternative tools and techniques. I mean, that's the bread and butter of what we do, how we operate. And then you also have to have a lot of personal qualities the fortitude to deal with let's call it misguided attitudes in the general world, and so when you're doing a startup, you're always thinking of alternative tools and techniques. How can I raise money? How can I market? Is this really a product that's viable? You might have to pivot the product.

Mike May: 17:33

You start in one place and then you move to another. So there's a lot of that same kind of thing that I'd say I started learning to be adaptable when I was three years old. So on the playground, I had to be adaptable, figure out. I could either stay in the study room or I could be out on the playground doing sports, and so I had to figure out what's a different way to play football, to play baseball. So I think my whole life was set up to be an entrepreneur because I was having to learn to be entrepreneurial at an early age.

Chris Maher: 18:12

I love that.

Mike May: 18:13

I have a few mottos that I'll just mention that kind of govern my life, and one is "the better you get around, the better you engage in life." So that really relates to orientation and mobility training. It relates to sports, because if you learn to run, if you learn to have good spatial perception, you develop your ability to get around, and then that in turn is useful. If you're going to go to conferences, you're going to go to meetings, if you're going to go out to lunch, you don't want to be the blind guy who's always following and somebody else makes the decisions of where do I go to lunch? How do we get there? I want to be the guy leading the way.

Mike May: 19:02

And then I also developed, with the GPS, a motto was "the power of getting un-lost." So one of the issues when you can't see is if you get lost and then you're stuck, then it's, you know, you're not going to want to do it again. So I realized that, hey, if I have different skills and technology for getting out of a pickle, getting un-lost, then I have so much more options in the world to explore. And then there's another one which is fundamental, which is "there's always a way", and that's about finding workarounds. If you believe there's a way to do stuff, you will figure it out, or you may figure out there is no way, so I've got to drop this thing and do something else. But if you go into it figuring there's always a way, I think it helps you not give up on finding those alternative tools and techniques.

Kelvin Crosby: 20:06

I mean, as you're saying those things it's just like it's so true. Like as I was developing the See Me Cane, like those. It's like the minute I started testing it and the minute I started doing things and the minute I started realizing getting un- lost, be able to find your way, being able to have that confidence. I mean that's not easy to get, but you do it over and over and over again. I mean, I tell people I'm one of the best pole dancers in the world. I pole dance at least five times a day. You know, and I said you know, have you ever had a lap dance by a fire hydrant?

Kelvin Crosby: 20:45

They're not pleasant but they're quite shocking and I mean, why do they put fire hydrants in the middle of the sidewalk? I still don't understand that one. But I mean, I think about it and it's like the way you push through and and I think that's so true, so true.

Chris Maher: 21:08

Mike, as you said these are life lessons for everybody. And, and if I was gonna try to summarize it, I think it's about problem solving. You know, as you said, as a three-year-old you have to become a great problem solver. It's about being resilient and adaptable, right. You've got to adapt. And I think those three words are so critical for entrepreneurship, especially someone who is embarking on that entrepreneurial journey for the first time right, they're a first time founder, CEO or a COO. . It is a rollercoaster of a ride and there are lots of ups and downs, and if you're not adapting and being resilient and problem solving, cause, it's not going to go exactly how you planned it,.

Mike May: 21:52

It is not. You can bet on that.

Chris Maher: 21:56

And so now after what? 18, 19 years, you leave Sendero and then you embark on this. I don't want to call it a second career, but this next chapter where you're living in two, at least from my perspective, you're you're living in two worlds very successfully and effectively, where you're working with larger companies, kind of more what you would call corporates or enterprise, in advisory and consulting roles, but you're also doing a lot of advising and mentoring with startups. And and along the way, again, you, as you said, you want to be the leader, you want to be the first mover. Every time I see you at a conference, you've got something new that you're testing out and so can you speak to that experience you've had in the last what is it? Six or seven years in this more kind of consulting and advisory role that you've been doing, fully immersed in disability and accessibility?

Mike May: 22:55

When we wrapped up Sendero, and it was really Jim Fruchterman from Arkenstone, when I was asking him about what do you think, should I do this? Should I do that? He said declare victory and move on. Oh, okay, yeah, I guess I did a pretty good job. You know, the GPS is now affordable. It's ubiquitous. Blind people are using it. They have many different options, different brands, so I started that thing. So I declared victory and moved on. Question was, what do I move on to?

Mike May: 23:28

And so the first opportunity that came along was the CEO of the Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind, which I did in 2017. And then I went from there to Wichita, Kansas, and joined Envision, which is one of the bigger agencies providing services to the blind, to start up a new thing they call the Workforce Innovation Center, and I did that for about three years. And then I decided you know, with sort of COVID time, I can work from anywhere and I had my fill of Wichita, which I really liked, but it's a different culture, different world than you know my time in California and Oregon and the West Coast. So I looked at where to move to and I found near Tahoe so I could be near skiing and friends and family, and I moved to Reno.

Mike May: 24:37

And then at that point, also in that period of time, when I went from Envision to Good Maps. They were founded in March of 2019. And I went to the first meeting the week that they announced Good Maps and I said, oh wow, I think I'd like to get back into the navigation business. You know, maybe there's a fit for me. And I said, you know, if the position comes up that makes sense for me, let me know. And they said we'll make one.

Chris Maher: 25:04

They're very smart people, Mike.

Mike May: 25:07

They did that and I joined Good Maps for three years or so and then I went over to APH the parent organization of Good Maps consulting half time. And that really was great from a number of aspects. One was they gave me a more general responsibility, not just navigation, but coming up with a new white cane, working on some of their tactical map products. The Monarch was just coming out, the tactile display, full-page Braille display. So that allowed me to work on their whole range of products, of which they have over 700, and a lot of them are in the navigation mobility kind of arena. And then I had half time to do other stuff. And then that really circled me back to my startup days and looking at the new technology that was coming out, like the one-court device for sports and smart glasses and other indoor navigation technology. All this stuff was happening and I just sort of put myself out there. If you want my two cents, I'll give it to you.

Chris Maher: 26:31

I love it. And everyone knows that. You're so generous with your time and your feedback. And with your experience, that feedback is incredibly valuable for these early stage companies. To take one little quick step back, so APH, American Printing House, Mike, I always thought you started there first and then you started working with Good Maps when that got spun out, but it was actually the opposite. You started with Good Maps, which was a spin out, and then that led you to working with the parent company. That's really interesting. So let's dig into the early stage startup, innovation, assistive tech. What are the things that you've been seeing recently that really get you excited, whether that's for the blind, low vision community or other areas of the disability community?

Mike May: 27:19

Well, you know, I'm sure you go through the same thought process, Chris. When you're innovating, you think of 10 things and maybe one of them ends up resonating, and there's so many things that can knock a product out of the water. One of the things in the navigation field that, and I think it really applies to all adaptive technology, the more that product can be disability-wide. So let's say, not just blind, it needs to be blind, low vision, other disabilities and the holy grail is it's also useful to sighted people. So your market goes from 1% of the population, 2%, 5%, all of a sudden to 100% and that's the ultimate goal.

Mike May: 28:14

So I was always benchmarking products in terms of their applicability to a larger market. And I think that's what's cool about something like the smart glasses, because when they're specialized for a blind person, those glasses and they don't necessarily look great, but they function great. You know those are going to be $2,000 to $2,500. You get the version that works for sighted people. They look great. Maybe they don't have all the specialized features, but oh, by the way, they cost $299. So it's really fascinating to follow that trajectory.

Chris Maher: 28:53

Yeah, I think you're spot on about that in terms of innovation. I think that's, you know we we did a an episode previously about like a lifestyle business versus an exit business. And I think when the applicability is beyond blind, low vision to the broader disability community and then to the broader general population, that's where you really start to have an opportunity not only to scale the social impact that you can deliver but how you can really scale commercially, right, revenue- wise. And that's not to say that companies that have a more narrow focus aren't super valuable. For me as a venture investor, they may not be venture worthy because that market may be too narrow. Like Kelvin and I have talked in the podcast about his business, the See Me Cane, which he's got a bit of a hybrid for-profit, nonprofit model there that is not venture worthy, but that's not to say that it's not a really important business that is solving a really important problem for people. And so, Mike, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that's really good advice for an early stage entrepreneur to be thinking about, especially in this assistive tech and disability sector. You may start off building for a very specific problem for a very specific population, but longer term can it be a much broader application? I think it's super advice.

Chris Maher: 30:16

And so what else are you seeing out there? So smart glasses? Absolutely. And Mike, you know the folks at Be my Eyes very well, and we're investors in them. But integrating Be my Eyes into those Meta smart glasses is a wonderful integration and application or example what you just said. But is there anything else out there? Are there other applications of smart glasses? Or? I know navigation is a really tough one to crack and I think Good Maps is doing an amazing job there. But what else are you seeing out there that gets you excited, whether it's for blind, low vision or just kind of in general?

Mike May: 30:54

Well, I should mention one other component of the evolution of technology is competition. And people might think automatically that competition is a bad thing. For me, with GPS, it was a really good thing because when I started Sendero in '99, there was nobody else doing GPS for the blind. And once I started getting some traction, then other people took notice - HumanWare, Freedom Scientific - and they said oh wow, and they made products. And when they made products I sold more. So it legitimized a new market area that I was having a hard time legitimizing. Everybody just said well, that's Mike May on his soapbox.

Chris Maher: 31:47

It's a great point. Like, as entrepreneurs, we should not be afraid of competition. Competition, as you say, it validates the market, but it also it helps to drive and accelerate innovation, right, because it's a race against time when you've got other competitors. I think that's a really good point.

Mike May: 32:05

And people can use alternatives. There's no, you know, there's like indoor navigation. I mean GoodMaps, it's probably mapped. Let's say all the indoor navigation companies GoodMaps, Waymap Next, some of the other ones they probably mapped 0.01% of the buildings in the world. So that tells you there's over 99% still left to map and so there's plenty of space. But they run into the same problem I did with GPS in the beginning, which was people just thought it was kind of a sideline and didn't help all that many people, when in fact it does, and it just takes some momentum to get past that initial stage. I'm really intrigued by Glide, the robot cane.

Chris Maher: 33:00

Oh, Amos Miller and Glidance?

Mike May: 33:02

Yeah, yeah. The Glide is, you know, I was friends with Amos because he was doing Soundscape before that, so he was, you know, one of the better GPS products. And so when you started talking about launching this company, I just said, oh man, that I'm not sure. That seems like kind of a weak idea. But I also said, you know, I also thought the iPhone was a really bad idea. I thought a touch screen with nothing tactile on it. Why would a blind person like that? And I'm happy to say I was totally wrong. People embraced it. Look where we are today.

Chris Maher: 33:48

So, Mike, with Glidance, and they're leveraging, I think, a decent amount of AI in their software and they'll leverage it more and more going forward. Can you speak to AI and kind of your thoughts on kind of AI today versus AI in the future and kind of the good, the bad, what you're excited about, what you're maybe a little apprehensive about?

Mike May: 34:08

Yeah, I mean, I'm always a fan of realizing that nothing is perfect. The GPS is still not perfect. It was less perfect when we started. Braille isn't perfect.

Mike May: 34:20

You know, I used to get you know Braille translation when it was first being done. You know it wasn't all right and I just said you know, some Braille is better than no Braille. So I think the same thing with AI. Yeah, it's going to hallucinate, okay.

Mike May: 34:37

So what do I do as a user or as a developer to work around that, to recognize that? Yeah, it will get more accurate in the future. But what about now? And I mean I see stuff from my friends who are much more into AI than I am and I'm just my approach right now is I'm going to learn from them. I'm going to get gadgets as as I can to test them and see if I can get feedback. But I think we got a lot of cool things going on and I have the.

Mike May: 35:13

I've had many pairs of smart glasses back to the first Bluetooth Oakley glasses in 2010, 2008. And you know, I have the Envision and I'm looking forward to the Echo Vision glasses. I think they're very cool. That's a case where they're specializing in the blindness market and they're competing with a mainstream product. So you know they have their hands full, but I think their AI is going to be something that maybe separates it in the way that they customize it more for blind people and blind applications.

Chris Maher: 35:52

At some point, Kelvin, we're going to have Mike back and we're going to dig into your business, because I know Mike has given you some great feedback over the years.

Chris Maher: 36:01

But, Mike, before we wrap up and ask you to tell people how they can get in touch with you and learn more about your work, I think a bunch of our listeners are early stage entrepreneurs, you know, running startups in the assistive tech and disability space. You've given some really good advice and some insights during this conversation, but any final words for them in terms of tips as they embark on this entrepreneurial journey?

Mike May: 36:28

Well, I think you have to weigh your passion against the business value of things, so don't be afraid to look mainstream and find out something that isn't blindness specific. One of my passion areas that I've never quite followed through with, but I still keep dipping a toe in the water, is search and rescue, and this goes back to my son being killed in an avalanche in 2016 and knowing that there's some technology that could have helped in finding him, if not preventing that from happening, and so I'm very, very interested in search and rescue technology. That's, you know, nothing to do with blindness, but if I found that there was a business opportunity, it's. It's something that would be fun to chase after, so that that would be my advice. Just make sure you're looking at the blindness field and realizing that it's a small market, and if you're okay with you know, eventually getting a decent salary but not getting rich, then and you love what you're doing and more power to you.

Chris Maher: 37:42

Yeah, and, Mike, thank you for for sharing that story. I did not realize that you lost your son back in 2016. I'm so sorry, but thank you for sharing that, and I think I think that's a little bit adjacent to, or or part of, emergency communication, and I think that is something that that is, we're lacking as it relates to the disability community. You look at some of the natural disasters that have happened and but, yeah, so, but, thank you, and that's terrific advice for for our listeners. And so, as we wrap up here, Mike, how can people connect with you and learn more about the work that you're doing?

Mike May: 38:16

Well, probably the most central place is to go to crashingthrough. com. That came out of the best-selling book that was about me in 2007. Through crashingthrough. com, I have a podcast that focuses on travel and draws on the history of my recordings and journals from back to the 70s to the present. I do once a month, and so that's called "The People Make The Places. That'd be a couple of places to find more. Of course, you can learn a lot more about APH at APH. org, and I'll be involved in some of their different projects.

Kelvin Crosby: 38:59

And then if you want to find them on the socials, how do they find you on the socials? Could you have your own little?

Mike May: 39:06

I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook. Not much on it. I mean, I have accounts on Instagram and TikTok, but I hate to open up those apps because all of a sudden I get stuck. Oh God, how do I get out of here?

Kelvin Crosby: 39:23

Yeah, they're not accessible. I mean your wife and I we ran into that problem because your wife is a big influencer, but we won't go down that path.

Chris Maher: 39:36

Well, we'll put all those links in the show notes. And so Mike May, in my mind, the most interesting man in the world. Thank you so much for spending some time with us and sharing your story and your insights. It's just been such a pleasure and you are the best, my friend, and hopefully we'll have you back again soon to talk some more.

Mike May: 39:55

Yeah, thanks, Chris, Kelvin. You know everybody is really fascinating if you get a chance to get to know them. So I appreciate the time today and great talking with you guys. Look forward to seeing you at the next conferences.

Kelvin Crosby: 40:09

Now it wraps up Invest in Inaccessibility. Go live beyond your challenge and we'll see you in two weeks.

Kelvin Crosby: 40:27

Thank you for listening to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast where we invest in change for accessibility, not wait for change. If you want to follow us, you can find us on YouTube or LinkedIn at @Samaritan Partners. If you would like to invest in Samaritan Partners, email chris at chris@samaritanpartners. com. If you'd like to learn more about us, go to www. samaritanpartners. com. You can take the first step in investing in change by giving us five stars and sharing this podcast with everybody that you know, so we can spread the word, so that we can give access to all, by Investing in Accessibility.