Welcome And Summer Catch Up

Kelvin Crosby 0:11

Welcome to Investing in Accessibility. A Samaritan Partners podcast. We're not waiting for change. We're investing in it.Join us as we speak with entrepreneurs and thought leaders who are focused on creating more accessible world. It's a good to see you even though I can't see you. It's another beautiful day in the neighborhood, I'm so excited that you're here at Investing in Accessibility. I'm your host, Kelvin Cosby, and I got my co-host Chris Maher. How you doing, man?

Chris Maher 0:42

I'm good, Kelvin. Good to uh be with you and see you, my friend. How you been? How's the summer, Calvin?

Kelvin Crosby 0:47

It's going, brother. It's getting to that point where we're starting to get into that fall season, you know. But the thing is, is I've never had an air conditioning situation in my life. And now San Diego is getting so hot that you actually have to have air conditioning in your house. What is a concept, you know? So I'm trying to figure that out.

Chris Maher 1:09

Like, wait, is is San Diego like literally getting warm? Is it no it's no longer like 72 in perfect weather, no humidity?

Kelvin Crosby 1:16

Today it's like 85 degrees. That's just a little too too warm for me, man.

Bob Ludke 1:21

That's when you need DAC, Kelvin.

Chris Maher 1:23

Yeah, welcome to our world, buddy.

Kelvin Crosby 1:27

I don't understand it. I'm like, I haven't seen the out. I have to go outside to actually experience the outside area. It doesn't come into the house. I'm like, this is just not right.

Welcoming Back Bob Ludke

Kelvin Crosby 1:39

But anyways, but we have an awesome guest today.

Chris Maher 1:43

We do, we do. It's good, it's actually back for a second episode. Yeah, would you like me to like me to introduce him or do you want to do any setup? You tell me.

Kelvin Crosby 1:51

No, you you you go ahead and introduce us, and and we'll and I'll let you take it away.

Chris Maher 1:57

All right, I appreciate it, pal. Well, this is a very, very good friend of the podcast. We are welcoming back for a second time our good friend Bob Ludke. Bob, how are you, my friend?

Bob Ludke 2:07

I am good, and I am thrilled to be back. And I'm a huge fan of the podcast. So anytime I can be part of the conversation, it's a real pleasure.

Chris Maher 2:18

Well, thank you, Bob. It's good to have you back. And um, but Bob spent uh I spent a lot of time with Bob this summer, which we'll get into in a minute. But as a refresher, Bob is the uh co-founder of a uh wonderful company called Value Inclusion. Um, Bob has also written um uh a couple of books, but one of which is called uh Case Studies and Disability Driven Innovation. And that we had you on the show, God, you were one of our first guests like a year, almost a year and a half ago, to talk about your book and a lot of other stuff. And then this summer, Bob and I um spent a bunch of time, and Kelvin was involved in this because Bob was kind and generous to uh help me organize and participate in a couple of events that Samaritan Partners co-hosted, one of which was the Accessible Innovation Showcase at the Accessibility Lab at the Schoolhouse Hotel in West Virginia. And Bob is our second installment of Tales from the Innovation Showcase. Welcome to the show.

Bob Ludke 3:21

All right, I am I'm fired up and ready to go.

Chris Maher 3:24

Okay, so so uh for our audience, Kelvin and Bob and I were together several weeks ago in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia for the Innovation Showcase at the Schoolhouse Hotel with our partner, um, the Disability Opportunity Fund. Um uh the first episode in the series about the innovation showcase or tales from the innovation showcase was with our friend Kristy Durso, which we which was the uh previous episode. Uh Bob was the other keynote fireside chat uh for that event. And so Bob and I sat down for about 30 minutes uh during during that event, that conference, to talk about a host of topics. But the crazy thing is, Kelvin and Bob and I were together for a little over 24 hours,

Kelvin Crosby 4:15

but I never saw Bob. But

Chris Maher 4:19

well, you wouldn't see him, you're blind.

Kelvin Crosby 4:21

Exactly.

Chris Maher 4:21

You forget that.

Kelvin Crosby 4:22

But but yeah, I mean, every time I went to go try to find Bob to do the do a recording in the spot, he was never anywhere to be found.

Bob Ludke 4:30

Kelvin, you are the star of the show. I didn't want to interrupt your mojo, so I just I backed off. I backed off.

Chris Maher 4:37

So that's why we had planned on the three of us we're gonna sit together in person and do this little preamble to Bob's fire keynote fireside chat, and then we never did it. And we all had to on the last day of the conference, we were all scrambling to get back up to the Washington, D.C. area. Bob was driving another friend of the show, uh Lee-Anne Reuber, who was one of the companies in the showcase. We're gonna have an episode with her coming up in the next in the next several weeks. And I was getting Kelvin up to Baltimore uh because he had to fly back to San Diego. So we were scrambling to get out of there on the last day of the event, and we just never pulled it together. So now we're doing this remotely. We're all in our home offices and looking at each other on video. But as always, it's awesome to be with both of you gentlemen. Um and uh Kelvin, uh, do you want to share any more um thoughts about your experience or lack of experience with Bob in in West Virginia?

West Virginia Stories And Travel Moments

Kelvin Crosby 5:38

I I think the I think one of the things about this event, I I as is as you guys will soon find out, I had some very interesting encounters with the bathroom um at this hotel. And I I tell you, I still talk about it today. I'm not I'm not a huge fan of having the toilet seat being warmed. And I'm not a huge fan of the toilet seat uh doing uh a a rear end body wash inside the toilet. I just I'm not sure about all that, you know. Never had that experience, and I just yeah, I've been kind of traumatized, let's just put it that way.

Chris Maher 6:21

Well, the at least our hosts at the hotel, Marsha and her team, uh took really good care of us as it relates to food because you've got some you've got some you you're on a new diet and you've got some specific requirements, yeah. Which which made for a very interesting 11 or 12 hours of driving for you and I down to West Virginia. And no, it wasn't no, but but but we had to make some you know important decisions about where we were gonna eat.

Kelvin Crosby 6:51

Hey, we went to Cracker Barrel.

Chris Maher 6:53

We did hit Cracker Barrel, that was great. Our waitress was awesome.

Kelvin Crosby 6:56

Well, we don't have that in California, so I was like, perfect, you know.

Chris Maher 7:01

You were loving Cracker Barrel.

Kelvin Crosby 7:02

Oh, yeah.

Chris Maher 7:03

Well, and and the thing is open up a restaurant in San Diego because like they do great business with you living there.

Kelvin Crosby 7:10

Well, I don't know. I barely go to iHop or Denny's, so I don't know.

Chris Maher 7:14

All right,

Kelvin Crosby 7:15

I I'd rather go get a burrito. A burrito, that's the way to go.

Chris Maher 7:20

Okay, all right. Well, we'll do we'll do a separate podcast about our you know our

Bob Ludke 7:26

culinary experience.

Chris Maher 7:28

Yeah, thank you, Bob. Very nice. Our our culinary experience and journeys when we travel together. Because we had a few, we had a few uh interesting ones at CES this past year as well. But we'll get that, but that's a different topic for another day and another

The Schoolhouse Hotel And Showcase

Chris Maher 7:41

conversation. So, Bob, let's jump into um for the innovation showcase. We're at the Schoolhouse Hotel, which to refresh people's memory is a ultra accessible hotel, the the Disability Opportunity Fund. Our our friends over there, Charlie Hammerman, um and Jenny Kurzweil, uh, who are behind the DOF, uh, took an old school, renovated it, turned it into this very accessible uh boutique hotel with 30 rooms, a restaurant, a ballroom, a rooftop bar. It's beautiful in this really charming town of West Virginia. And that's where we set up the accessibility lab about a year and a half ago when we were bringing in early stage innovation to test out. Um, and then uh it was Charlie's idea, you know, back in the spring. He said, Hey, let's, I got a grant, let's let's do a showcase and and bring people together and talk about accessibility, disability inclusion as it relates to hospitality and tourism. Uh, and when uh I knew we were gonna do that, Bob was one of the first people I reached out to uh to hopefully uh agree to make the trip down from DC uh and to do a fireside chat with us to talk about a number of different topics around accessibility and disability inclusion. And so, Bob, what am I what am I leaving out? And you were awesome. It was it was it was fantastic to have you there. That was your first time at the hotel, right?

Bob Ludke 9:01

It was, it was. Um, certainly not my West, my first time in West Virginia. I think it's yeah.

Chris Maher 9:07

So, Bob, what were your first impressions of of the hotel, though? I know we get into that a little bit, but just kind of your first impression and then your overall experience of what we did with the innovation showcase.

Bob Ludke 9:19

Yeah, so as I was as I was saying, it is certainly not my first time in West Virginia. And I think it's a it's a wonderful state. Um, there's actually there's a lot of things to do. And I think building an accessible venue or an accessible place to stay like the schoolhouse can only help the state, right? It just it makes the state more accessible for more people. Um, and I you know, I hope that's a model that everyone, you know, starts to starts to follow. I my positive impressions of the schoolhouse started as soon as Lee-Anne and I kind of entered the the driveway to go up to the the hotel. And we both just said, like, wow, this is really cool. I mean, it's this really, really just almost you know historic building, but yet you can tell right away it has a very modern, clean, kind of innovative feel. And then what we walk in, and then the all the accessibility features really start to to become apparent, and you go to your room, they become even more apparent. You just without ever seeing the word welcome, you I felt welcomed when I went into that hotel. It just, I think, because of the mindset of accessibility, because of the accessibility features, it just almost instinctively makes you feel welcome. Um, and it just so it just it set the next few days off on the right, on the right track for me, in the right mindset. And it was a great feeling.

Chris Maher 10:57

Yeah, and I think that you know, Kristy said this, I think it was either in our conversation with her or in the fireside chat at the event, that we need to stop thinking as it relates to hospitality and tourism, uh, stop thinking about accessibility as a compliance checkbox or an ADA um, you know, uh regulation, but just as exceptional hospitality. And when you provide exceptional hospitality, all of your guests have a great experience and it's good business, right?

Bob Ludke 11:31

Yes, yes. And it kind of going back to your introduction, you know, a couple weeks before that, or I think the week before that, we were together in in Connecticut and I stayed in, you know, a traditional hotel, should we just say? Yeah. And it really was not accessible. Certainly, like the you know, the room was not accessible, the bathroom was not accessible, and it just had a different vibe to it. It just, it just it kind of felt like this compliance checklist. Like I'm here to to get a night's sleep, and that's it. I'm not here to enjoy anything, not here to experience anything. Literally and figuratively, I'm here to check in and check out.

Chris Maher 12:08

Yep. Yeah. Um, and so we don't want to get into too much of what we talked about because we're gonna play the recording of our keynote fireside

Reconnecting With Disability Innovation

Chris Maher 12:19

chat. Uh, and we're gonna get into that in a few minutes. But Bob, when you and I were chatting the other day, kind of in preparation for this call, you know, you're so Value Inclusion is a consultancy you have with with your partner, your co-founder Ashlea, and that can take you a big core of what you do is around accessibility, disability inclusion, and there are many layers to that, but it also takes you into some other areas of ESG uh and policy, et cetera. And you had made a comment to me the other day that what you loved about this summer is it really brought you back into the fold um more deeply around the disability community and accessibility and disability inclusion because some of your recent business or work projects or client work had taken you a little bit away or tangentially. But but you were talking to me. I would you were just talking about, I'm like, Bob, I think we need to talk about this on the podcast because it was it was honestly, it was really impactful for me to hear you talk about it. So can you just share some of those thoughts here?

Bob Ludke 13:24

Sure. So, you know, as Chris has just said, a significant, a significant portion of my business or my professional work is around disability, disability employment, disability innovation. However, I also have the opportunity to do, should we just say, more traditional corporate consulting, corporate communications, corporate reputation management, and things like that. So for a variety of factors, you know, starting almost a year ago through this summer, I'd become very, very busy on that, should we just say on the corporate side, and had an opportunity to do and to be part of some really, really wonderful events and some moments, and some of which actually had a really interesting tie-in to disability and accessibility. For example, um, I had the opportunity to be at the World Economic Forum's annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland in January. And one of the big topics of conversation there was the brain economy. And people are now starting to fully appreciate the value that the health of our brains brings to the global economy. And the more we invest in the health of our brains, the more we recognize and accept that our all of our brains work a little different. And that's not something to run from, it's something to embrace. The more innovative, the more productive, the more collaborative we are, and therefore we all benefit. So I don't in any way want to, shall we just say, disparage the journey I took back into more corporate communications, but in large part thanks to all these wonderful collaborations with people like Chris and Kelvin, I I've really I spent the summer reconnecting with the topic I'm most passionate about, which is you know disability innovation and the value proposition of accessibility and things like that. And it's just I don't know, I I've had this the same feeling I had when I showed up at the schoolhouse is the same feeling I've had kind of reconnecting with this network of entrepreneurs, innovators, advocates, investors. And it's just like welcoming feeling, and it's this kind of you know very impactful band of people that have come together to invest in, foster, advance a more inclusive society with the benefit of creating human good. And and no one's necessary, of course, we're all in it for the money at some level, right? We all have to pay the bills. We you know, we have lives to lead. But but no one is is in this work to just become a billionaire to say they become a billionaire. They're here first and foremost to solve a human problem. And from that, if you know good things happen, great. But the driving force behind all these innovations that you see at places like the schoolhouse is solving a human problem.

Chris Maher 16:38

Yeah, like really, really well said. Thank you, thank you for sharing that. It's interesting when and Bob, what you said resonates so much with me because like I'll have friends or family ask, hey Chris, how are things going at Samaritan? Are you enjoying the work? And as people know, I spent the previous 25 years in a purely for-profit, very competitive, like VC back startup world building businesses and scaling businesses, and that was great. And I'm and I'm a for-profit person, and and there was nothing wrong with that, but it felt very much, or I shouldn't say it felt it it was a zero-sum world that I was living in. Yeah, my success is at someone else's expense. I win, you lose. There was limited kind of partnering and collaborating. Um, and the world I'm in now, it is it is energizing. I feel like it fills my cup. Whenever I'm having a bad day, I get on the phone with with with people like you folks or other folks. Um, and I am nourished by by that work. And it's inspiring, right? I get to the end of my day and I've maybe had another half a dozen conversations with people or been at a conference um like the Innovation Showcase. Um, and I'm interacting with people on a daily basis who are, as you said, Bob, who are all who are all focused on trying to make the world a better place, not for not just for some of us, but for all of us. Yeah. And that and that's a pretty cool way to spend your days. And so I'm I'm with you completely.

Bob Ludke 18:00

Y eah.

Chris Maher 18:01

So thank you, thank you for sharing that.

Bob Ludke 18:03

Um I just maybe to put a finer point on that or build on that, is I was really, really heartened by my experience at Davos this year. You know, I've been going to the World Economic Forum meetings for, you know, the past 10 years. And I would say one of the consistent threads in all these conversations or all the engagements at Davos is, you know, it's very transactional, it's very profit-driven. Um when we started talking about things like the brain economy and how to really start detecting the early warning signs of Alzheimer's and how to better understand how our brain works. I mean, the like the vibe in the rooms like shifted. Yeah. And and you know, even people who weren't experts in those topics kind of instinctively just leaned in. Um, and and you you kind of just you felt this collaboration coming forward that isn't always hasn't always been the case, you know, in in in previous conversations at Davos. So I get I just there's just something to what we're all working on that I think instinctively makes people feel welcome, makes people want to join in.

Chris Maher 19:21

Yeah. I I I personally believe that a big part of that is lived experience and the fact that whether it's chronic illness, disability, mental health, it's all touches disability in some way, shape, or form. And it's part of the human experience.

Bob Ludke 19:42

Yeah.

Chris Maher 19:42

And I think that when when we can get people around the table to start discussing this, that's where I feel like people start to get this connection and this engagement with it. And we need to do more of that.

Bob Ludke 19:52

Yeah,

Chris Maher 19:53

we're not doing enough of it. And that's a big reason why we did the innovation showcase at the schoolhouse a few weeks ago.

How To Reach Bob

Kelvin Crosby 19:59

How can people get a hold of you, Bob?

Bob Ludke 20:02

Great, uh, great question. And I would welcome any and all outreach. So thank you, Calvin, for that opportunity. Uh, there are probably the the two easiest ways to get a hold of me uh are LinkedIn. So, you know, my hopefully my profile is somewhat prominent on LinkedIn. I try to try to be active, uh, be an active participant in the conversation. So, you know, look for Robert Ludke on LinkedIn, or feel free to email me. Um, and my email is Robert @valueinclusion.com. And I would again love to have a conversation and see how we can work together.

Chris Maher 20:43

Awesome. We're gonna put those in the uh in the show notes and Bob, uh, as always, it is a pleasure to collaborate with you, my friend. Good to uh good to have you back on the show.

Bob Ludke 20:52

The the feeling is is very mutual, and thank you, Chris and Kelvin, for you know, honestly, like elevating our collective conversation over the summer. And uh you just it was it was a great pleasure to be part of what you put together over the summer. So thank you for that.

Chris Maher 21:12

Thanks, Bob. You're the best, my friend.

Fireside Chat Begins On Stage

Kelvin Crosby 21:14

All right, let's go right into the conversation that Chris and Bob had at the schoolhouse.

Chris Maher 21:20

Okay, thanks everybody. Um, so we've got another treat here today because um this next speaker um is not only uh incredible at what he does, but I also get to call him a good and close friend. And so our next speaker is Bob Ludke. So, Bob, welcome to the stage. Um, before we get into our questions, I am gonna also read a bio about Bob because I can't remember all of the wonderful work he's done. So I need I need a prompt here. Um, and and I'm also only going to cover uh a portion of what he's done. But let me just read about Bob's background. So Bob Bob Ludke is the leading voice on disability driven innovation, an inclusive business strategy. Throughout his career, he has advised policymakers, global companies, and nonprofit organizations on sustainability, corporate governance, accessibility, and disability employment. He is the author of Case Studies in Disability Driven Innovation, which demonstrates how disability can fuel innovation, create competitive advantage, and unlock new market opportunities, as well as the book Transformative Markets, which is a book exploring the role of markets in building a more sustainable society. So, Bob, welcome to the stage.

Bob Ludke 22:31

Thank you. It's an honor to be here.

Chris Maher 22:35

So I think a good place to start, uh, so we're sitting here in this 100-year-old school in a small town of 2,300 people or so. Um and this hotel has become arguably the most accessible hotel in the world. Um, and so now that you've been able to spend some time here, you got you were here a day or so early, and you've really been able to soak up not only uh this building but the surrounding

Feeling Welcome Through Accessible Design

Chris Maher 23:07

area. Um, what are your thoughts?

Bob Ludke 23:10

Well, I mean, my first thought was when Lee-Anne and I pulled in the other night, we both said it. It was like, wow, this is really cool. Like, and we hadn't even come in yet, right? So you you just you automatically have this feel of this really, really unique, transformative place. And so, and then you come in and you're you know, I was even more impressed. And then I get to my room and I'm even more impressed, and it just like it just works, it fits together. And and it is, you know, Charlie and Jenny and all the community have done something that has just it's created a venue where no matter who you are, no matter where you're coming from, you just you you instinctively feel welcome. Yeah, and that at the end of the day, that's that's what everything in the travel industry should aspire to is to make people feel feel welcome. And I also think that it is, you know, through your work, Chris, it's become this amazing showcase of what is possible when it comes to innovation, and innovation that um, you know, benefits benefits everyone. And I, you know, I I would just urge all of us to to not overlook the the transformative potential of these these technologies that are here today.

A Missing Accommodation Changes Everything

Bob Ludke 24:28

And I want to give uh an example, and it's not really with the travel industry, but um a few years ago, um I was with uh former senator Tom Harkin, who I still work for. Senator Harkin um is was the lead senate author of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So Tom Harkin and Bob Dole were the two that got the ADA through the through the U.S. Senate. And and we were speaking at this um, you know, a large Fortune 50 company that had made a big commitment to disability inclusion, and they wanted Tom to come and have a fireside chat just like this with the CEO. And the one of the contractual rules with the Harkin Institute is that we need to have um ASL and um captioning available if if we're going to be there in an official capacity. Well, this organization, for whatever reason, bureaucratic snafu didn't didn't have that. And so the the young woman who was uh selected to answer the ask questions to the CEO and to Tom was having a hard time articulating the questions. That became a problem because Tom Harkin, while he is an incredibly vibrant 85-year-old man, is a former Navy fighter pilot, which means his hearing is shot. Tom Harkin, however, is absolutely fluent in American sign language because his older brother is profoundly deaf. Tom Harkin to this day is the only person that has signed a speech on the U.S. Senate floor. Right. So Tom is up here on the stage, just like this, in front of hundreds and hundreds of people, like doing this, and I can't quite hear you. I I don't understand. Can you repeat that? And it's become this very dignified man has become kind of embarrassed now, all because there wasn't an accommodation available to him. If there would have been an interpreter right there for Tom, he just would have watched the interpreter, it would have been a non-issue. And and so this, you know, these technologies can overcome those moments of uncomfortableness, those moments where the story becomes not about the guy who had a vision for the ADA and instead the guy who can't hear what is being asked of him. And so, you know, I think it's just a lesson to all of us to to embrace what is being given to us through all these wonderful entrepreneurs and innovators, because it you never know when it's gonna make your life a heck of a lot easier.

From Niche To Scale In Hospitality

Chris Maher 27:05

Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that story about Senator Harkin. I want to circle back to something that I that Kristy and I talked about earlier and about like niche market. And um, you know, I think there is um a perception that companies that are building for the disability uh sector, it's it's their niche products, um, going after niche opportunities or small opportunities. A lot of times, um, and you've done a lot of work in this space, the entrepreneurs themselves have disabilities and the businesses they're building are out of necessity, either to provide income for themselves or they're building solutions that they need themselves that are not available in the market. And so you you've worked on how markets go from niche to scaled. Um, and you have a lot of experience in that as it relates to disability and disability inclusion, accessibility. Can you share your thoughts on that as specifically as it relates to travel and hospitality of that go that that transition from niche to something that is scaled?

Bob Ludke 28:06

I think what Gordon is doing, what what this hotel and this community have done is a perfect example of how you take things from niche to scale. It's when you build for everyone, you're suddenly your market becomes limitless. Um, here it doesn't at this hotel, at this venue, it doesn't matter if you're disabled or not, but man, it it sure it sure is a lot easier to use here. Like it's just so much more comfortable for me, who has a you know a slight limitation in mobility in one of my legs, to just walk into a shower rather than to step into a tub and you know worry about slipping. And but there's also just the vibe that a place gives off, um, about how you know how open and welcoming it is. And again, that came about because Charlie and Jenny and others took the time to find ways to collaborate with the community. If they hadn't found ways to collaborate with the community, this this never would have happened, the storefront rehabilitation never would have happened. And so again, an idea only came to fruition through cross-market collaboration. Yeah, you they you know they Charlie and Jenny are developers, right? So, but they had to collaborate with the builders, they had to collaborate with the people issuing the permits, they had legal teams involved. That's how you do it. You can't, even Gordon Hartman can't do it alone.

Chris Maher 29:39

Y ep, agreed.

The Real Economics Of Accessibility

Chris Maher 29:41

Um, so staying on the kind of the theme of good business, um, you know, earlier Kristy and I talked about the size of this opportunity and the size of the market and and the economic power um of this market, right? In terms of the number of people, the spending power, um, et cetera. Um, I also talked about how we need to be thinking about not just disability, but also aging, because there's overlap there. Um, but you and I have had some conversations where we need to be a little bit careful about how we talk about that and position the economic opportunity. Um, so it doesn't kind of come back and bite us in the butt, sorry, for lack of a better term. So, but can you elaborate on that a little bit? Because I think I think it's it's a really important nuance of that conversation about the economic opportunity.

Bob Ludke 30:33

Yeah, I mean, everything that you and Kristy talked about in the economic opportunity is a hundred percent correct. Uh Lord knows I've cited it countless times. I think Kristy hits on an incredibly important point in which the data collection around all things disability, not just the economic potential, but just everything disability is woefully inadequate. And honestly, there's there's no excuse for that. I mean, there's no excuse for you know for the federal government con you know collecting data on gender, race, ethnicity, so on and so forth, and it doesn't collect the data on the one thing that intersects all of that, right, which is disability. So, you know, how can you, you know, how how can you not? And and how can you know organizations not track, again, the one trait that's intersectional to all of us, disability. So that is I that is an incredibly important point. The aging data is, I mean, it's it's jaw-dropping, right? And without a doubt, it is going to transform our economy, it's going to transform our society, it's going to make the the boomers moving through society are going to make society more accessible and inclusive for all. Having said that, I there are, you know, we we've talked a little bit about this. I would say there are two kind of cautionary tales. And the first is I I firmly believe that the boomer generation is this incredibly unique phenomenon that we may never see again. They're they're one of the largest, if not the largest, demographic that's ever moved through society. They're certainly the wealthiest demographic that moves through society. So they have the numbers, literally the all kinds of numbers needed to make the change, right? They are they are moving a market or markets because they are so many people, they spend money, they have money to spend. I think it is an open question after the boomers pass, if other generations will have that same ability to spend the money, use their purchasing power, use their influence in a way that continues to drive accessibility and inclusion forward. I hope I'm wrong. I hope that the boomers fundamentally just make the change. But the fact of the matter is, you're going to be, you know, when it comes to travel, after the boomers, you're dealing now with smaller populations with less money to spend, less money to throw around to kind of insist on change. And so we I think we might be relegated to a place that you have to hope that what the boomers do sticks rather than feeling confident that it will stick. Yeah.

Chris Maher 33:27

So it it me as as putting my positive investor uh spin on it is the moment is now. Like if we're gonna bring private capital into this market to create systemic change um in an accelerated fashion, we've got to act now.

Bob Ludke 33:46

We have to act now. But then I think it takes all of us to insist that that change stays.

Chris Maher 33:53

Stays. Agreed.

Bob Ludke 33:53

It stays in that and that we all collectively take a more active approach in acknowledging the benefits that have come from that change. So that change again is integrated into society.

Chris Maher 34:05

I think really

Dignity As The Point Of Travel

Chris Maher 34:06

well said. So one more question for Bob, and then we're gonna open it up to questions from the audience. But my friend Bob, um, you you've been uh running with the Pope and the Vatican in recent months. True story. Um but what's really interesting about that experience is that the Pope has recently come out with, or not, I think it's been a consistent message for this new Pope, but but very much about uh this message that centers on the common good and we as a society and as citizens what we owe to each other. Um how should that perspective shape the future of travel and hospitality?

Bob Ludke 34:44

So I, through the collaboration with some others, had an opportunity about a month ago to bring um about 70 or 80 uh private sector executives, um, former athletes, to um the the Vatican uh to kind of bring the private sector's perspective to the Catholic Church, to the Pope. Um leading up to this, we you know, in a lot of preparation, we spent a lot of time kind of understanding the you know how the Catholic Church and how this Pope in particular thinks, and the value that the organization and the individual place on you know important values like dignity and humanity, um, and how you know the frankly the private sector can do a better job acting with dignity, acting and bringing humanity into its decisions. And so it was it has really given me a lot to think about, you know, coming out of this. And last week we talked a lot about dignity, and I and I keep coming back to that. And and I look at the the travel sector, and I touched on this before, it's you know, when you walk into a venue like this, you walk in with your your dignity intact, and that's that's priceless. You know, you walk in with a sense of humanity because the venue has been created for all humans, regardless of how they're entering the the building. And and really, if you're and again, I I said this before, I think, you know, if you're in the hospitality industry, you know, like your job is to make people feel welcome. Otherwise, you're not gonna and and and that again, that kind of cuts across every, you know, every religion. That's not just the Catholic Church. Every religion has stories about how someone took in someone else who was a wayward traveler and needed a place to stay, right? So again, that's part of our humanity. And and I go back to, you know, remember a few years ago where that uh woman who has a disability was very unceremoniously dragged off that United Airlines flight, right? Because there was confusion over her seat. And so in the immediate sense, like she lost her seat, right? But you can recover a seat, right? There's always another flight you can get on. But what did she really lose? She really lost her dignity. I mean, could you imagine being filmed while being dragged off an airline in front of or an airplane in front of 80 or 90 other people? Like that dignity, that level of dignity is not coming back anytime soon. Um, and and so I just I think that the reason I should have said this earlier, the reason the hospitality sector is so important is because all of us touch it. We all travel, we all get on the plane, we all do family vacations. And so it is obviously an incredibly important hotbed for innovation, like we're we're seeing here in so many ways today. But it's also the again, the the place that or the thing that brings dignity to all of us because we all want to experience travel in a way that reflects who we are as a person. And so I think going beyond this, I mean, why are we innovating, right? Why is Idan making Right Hear? It's it's not just to allow people to experience the situation better, it's to do it in a way that connects with them as a human. And and you know, why is Lee-Anne creating this, you know, these workout apps? It's so everyone can enjoy the human ability to move however they want to move. And and I that can't be undersold.

Chris Maher 38:32

Yep, agreed. Well said, Bob.

Policy Makers As Honest Brokers

Chris Maher 38:37

I think that's a great place to open up to questions with the audience. Anyone have a question for our friend Bob here? Yes, Deputy Secretary. Did everyone hear that? No? So so basically the Deputy Secretary asked, what advice does Bob have for state level policy makers as it relates to investing in accessibility, making it more systemic, and not just for travel, but across other sectors like sports, et cetera? I think that was an okay summary.

Bob Ludke 39:45

I I think the the first trait that many, should we just say public officials or the public sector underestimates, in my view, is in many cases, especially at the start of a project or the start of negotiations, the the public sector are is seen as the the honest broker, right? They're the the Switzerland that can bring all these disparate entities together and give everyone a safe space to say, hey, I want to build a hotel here. This is what I'm thinking. Can you bring together all the people that I'm going to need? I mean, it's I think it's it's a lot easier for a public sector official to convene that kind of meeting than it would be for someone who is seen as acting more in their self-interest, you know, an investor or someone like that. Again, I think that is often underestimated by the public sector. I also think that the public sector does a great job in giving the signals of confidence that investors like Chris can actually make the leap of faith to write the check to start investing in a project. Um, and I this is outside the the disability uh sector, but a great example um occurred in in Texas in the 1990s when Governor George W. Bush was in office and Texas decided it really, really wanted to become a hub of wind energy. And the state of Texas, pushed by Governor Bush, created the policy needed to give investors to give the wind, the wind turbine companies the certainty to invest in the state of Texas when it came to wind power. And from that point on, it it really accelerated. And and so if if policy helps drive certainty, what do investors need, what do entrepreneurs need, they need certainty that their money, their time, their energy, their brain power is gonna be worth it. And it's the rug's not gonna get pulled out from under them. And and that the laws are in place to ensure that you know their their ideas are protected, their intellectual property is protected, and that again, their their investment is is gonna be worth it. Is that yeah,

Chris Maher 42:17

yeah, I agree.

Website Accessibility And Enforcement Reality

Chris Maher 42:18

I I think don't underestimate how policy can it can um impact behavior um in a good in good ways and bad ways. Um in Europe, I about a year ago, um Europe uh enacted the European Accessibility Act. Businesses had from that point forward, about I think it's 18 months, that every single business that has a website, that website has to be fully accessible. Um, otherwise they're gonna get fined. Um, a quick little stat for you 96% of websites today on the internet are not accessible. It's that's criminal, right? Um, but that policy change in Europe that is driving a massive amount of investment um in the industry.

Bob Ludke 43:04

And those policies are one and two years away here in the U.S. Right. So that those are coming because the Trump administration put forward a rule that said this part of the Americans with Disabilities Act is going to be implemented on, I believe, July 1, 2027, and July 1, 2028, depending on the size of the organization and the and in particular the size of the municipality. So that is policy spurring change, spurring innovation, spurring investment into a sector. And and you know, when you have a threat of a DOJ lawsuit coming at you, you know, that's the you know, the original policy the ADA was the carrot. Yeah, a DOJ lawsuit is now the stick. And so for you know, it's taken too long, but now we're gonna start to see websites become more accessible for everyone, which is much needed.

Chris Maher 43:57

Yeah, that that that'll be highly motivating for people. Um maybe one more question, and then we're going to wrap it up yes. Cindy, right? So she was saying that policy's great, but if it's not enforced, it pretty much doesn't matter, right? And and and I agree with you, right? The ADA was passed 36 years ago. It's our 36th anniversary. And by the way, the ADA, it's the floor, right? It's the bare bones minimum, as Kristy said.

Bob Ludke 45:17

Any policy is the floor, not just the ADA. Any policy anywhere in the economy is the floor.

Chris Maher 45:22

Yeah. And and so, but if even the bare bones minimum is not being enforced, how are you ever going to elevate and try to reach for the ceiling? And so that that's just a quick little summary paraphrase of the question. So, Bob, do you want to react?

Bob Ludke 45:36

That's a hard, it's that's a hard question. It's a hard question to answer. I was hoping you would take that. But no, I mean, we look, we have every one of us in both our personal and our professional lives has struggled with policy being implemented or enforced either inconsistently or at least in our mind, unfairly. That's when it comes to the other actors in the economy, be they individuals, be they advocacy organizations, be they investors, going back to the government, going back to the policymakers and constructively, but forthright telling them, hey, you're you're you know, you're causing you're you're now actually causing uncertainty in the market. We're not able to do the things that we want to do. And this is how you would you would you need to fix it. These are our suggestions for how to fix it. And I there's nowhere, no country, no community where that policy implementation is ever perfect. But it it it then falls on us, fairly or unfairly, to help hold the policymakers and the intent of the policy accountable for what it was intended to do. And I wish I had a better, I wish I had a better answer to that. I I would just say that as one who was, you know, came into the Tom Harkins world who shortly after the Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law, the implementation of the Americans with Disabilities Act to this day is far more difficult than writing the law. I mean, the writing the law was really, really hard. But it was it is even harder to implement the law in a way that both upholds the intent of the law and our ability to adhere to the law, and it that will never change.

Chris Maher 47:32

Yeah. I've I've got one comment to add to that, and I think that policy is certainly very important with this,

Private Capital And Corporate Courage

Chris Maher 47:39

right? So local and federal government um plays a very important role in this, philanthropy plays a very important role in this, and historically it's kind of been those two groups that have supported our community historically, but it's not enough. And it and it's wonderful what they do, but there are limitations to what those groups can do to really elevate the community to where it needs to be. And that's where, for me, private capital comes into play. I I think there is a lot of capital out there that's looking at other areas and we need to shine a light and things like that Charlie's doing, that I'm doing, that Bob's doing, these great uh startup companies that I truly believe have the ability to scale uh commercially. Um we need we need to talk about those stories more and more. The last thing for me, the way that I believe this really starts to accelerate more quickly, we need more courageous leadership from corporate America, right? They just they just want to do the bare bones minimum. They are just checking a compliance uh checkbox. But there are corporations out there that are leaning into this and investing in it. I think it's being driven largely by lived experience. You look at Microsoft, um, Satya Nadella um has a a son, an adult son with disability. Unfortunately, he passed away a couple years ago. But there's no doubt in my mind that that lived experience of raising a child with a disability has driven what Microsoft is doing as a corporate uh player. Um and what they're realizing is it's good business. They're they they are creating environments within their company that is more welcoming for their own employees, setting them up to be more successful and more productive, and they're also pulling in more customers and it's generating more revenue and it's and it's impacting their bottom line in a very positive way very quickly. But there there is a lack of courageous leadership in corporate America, and we need more examples of like Microsoft and Satya and Nadella for this thing to really accelerate.

Bob Ludke 49:31

Can I make one?

Chris Maher 49:32

Yeah, please.

Bridging Investors And The Disability Community

Bob Ludke 49:34

I my view is that there is uh, and this goes back to the question about the private the public sector, because I think this is where the public sector could play an enormously helpful role in the disability innovation space. For some reason, the investors, the vast majority of investors, not all of them, but the vast majority of investors feel like the risk or the market opportunity and or the market opportunity of investing in disability is either too great a risk or not great enough market opportunity. So their money is staying on the the sidelines. The disability community typically has not done much to interact with the investor community. The disability community, for very good reason, has tended to seek policy solutions to advance uh, should we just say the cause of disability? But the disability community has been slow to understand the impact of both people like Chris who have the money, people like Charlie, as well as the innovators who have the potential to transform um how we live our lives. The disability community is not doing a great job going to the investor community selling the value proposition of disability, the market opportunity, the transformational potential in our lives, the human experience, so on and so forth. So neither side is talking to each other, neither side is communicating, and neither side really understands the other. And as a result, the the change is not happening fast enough. There's too much money on the sidelines, there's too much entrepreneurship that's starved over here. And I really, really think the public sector can be the one that brings them together to just start listening to each other, start talking to each other, start wrestling through all these problems. Um and honestly, that's like what the Catholic Church is. That's what this Pope is looking to do on, you know, like on AI. Like the Catholic Church is looking to figure out how to work with the private sector to come up with the regulations, the working groups to ensure that AI embodies a human experience. So there is that need again for the so-called honest brokers, the Switzerlands, the trusted officials to bring these communities together because it's on their own, it's not happening. So someone needs to step in.

Chris Maher 52:06

Partnership and collaboration.

Final Thanks And How To Support

Chris Maher 52:08

I think that's a great place to end. Um, folks, thank you so much. Let's give a round of applause for our friend Bob here. Thank you, Bob, very much. Appreciate it.

Kelvin Crosby 52:29

Thank you for listening to Investing in Accessibility, a Samaritan Partners podcast, where we invest in change for accessibility, not wait for change. If you want to follow us, you can find us on YouTube or LinkedIn at @Samaritan Partners. If you would like to invest in Samaritan Partners, email Chris at chris@SamaritanPartners.com. If you'd like to learn more about us, go to www.samaritanpartners.com. You can take the first step in investing in change by giving us five stars and sharing this podcast with everybody that you know so we can spread the word so that we can give access to all by Investing in Accessibility.